Completely foreseeable response to a greedy mtx cashgrab on a single-player game.
If I was into modding, I’d do this too.
Single player games should not have micro transactions for power ups. Period.
This is my philosophy with things. If something can be bought with real money in a single player game I’ve already paid for, I have no problems using mods or cheats to get the same things.
Removed by mod
And I’d say they are even worse in multiplayer games. MTX that affect how the game is played is just paying someone to make it easier for you to win, which is pathetic whether it’s a single player or multiplayer game.
I would probably recommend not using these mods, or at least limiting their usage. The MTX subverted the design intent of the game. These could potentially make the game worse.
(I haven’t played the game and can’t tell you if the game was designed worse for MTX, but everything I’ve seen and read indicates that it wasn’t and those were forced in as an afterthought.)
JESUS CHRIST at the amount of suckers talking about MTX being okay in this game because “yOu CaN eArN tHe ItEmS iNgAmE” are missing the point!
Good lord, what happened to being in an uproar about horse armor DLC? I miss those days!
If you add 20+ items of “DLC” into a singleplayer game THE FIRST DAY, you deserve for your company to go belly up. Full stop.
I’m not against the idea of MTX, I think there’s a place for them. For instance I don’t mind if a game sells deluxe edition upgrade as a MTX because that’s ultimately pro-consumer. Without that option you’re either going to have to bite the bullet and hope you enjoy the game or pay extra to get the same game twice if you do enjoy it enough. I know I used that option with BG3.
That said, selling in game resources as MTX is fucking stupid. It’s just fundamentally incompatible with good games. If the resources are abundant there’s no reason to sell them as MTX. If they’re scarce then they’re either deliberately scarce for the purpose of selling the MTX which is just scummy, or they’re scarce for some other reason (like if you don’t want to make fast traveling everywhere easily accessible) then selling that resource as MTX just undermines the purpose of the scarcity.
deluxe edition as a MTX
I spent a few minutes analyzing this sentence alone. Admittedly I read the rest of your argument and respect your opinion. It’s just that this is stuck in my head.
Buying the deluxe edition through a micro-transaction? My mind wants to classify this as an oxymoron. Admittedly a lot of microtransactions aren’t really micro by any stretch of the imagination but this just stands out.
Pretty sure he means a deluxe edition upgrade as a mtx.
Where some games allow you to get the base game, try it out and upgrade if you want. Rather than diving in at the deep end and not knowing if you’ll enjoy the game.
Oh 100% that’s what they meant. It’s just something that caught my attention as it almost appears to be an oxymoron.
In practice, “microtransaction” can mean many things. A small price, a purchase of non-unique content, or even a small quantity of unique (non-base) content. So yes, upgrading to the “deluxe” edition can fall under that description. But calling the “deluxe” content upgrade a “micro-transaction” almost appears contradictory. So I had a little chuckle while pondering this before becoming upset at how broad (and expensive) said “micro”transactions have become.
You’re right that it is weird. It’s because we use MTX and DLC almost synonymously and that’s because there’s a lot of overlap. They’re overloads terms and we need a better vocabulary to talk about the specifics. For instance I think if Dragons dogma didn’t sell resources and sold only the deluxe edition parts then there wouldn’t be that big of an outrage about MTX. The outrage is about the in game resources being sold, but it’s hard to present it that way when the only word we have for it is MTX, which also contains the part that is not the issue.
On Steam you can usually pay the difference to upgrade to a deluxe/ultimate edition
And your favorite pirate site negates the need to give capcom any money.
has Dragon’s Dogma 2 already been cracked?
denuvo :(
EMPRESS too busy Shizo posting to crack it just yet?
yea lol
I heard she’s in jail.
i wonder when denuvo starts claiming these mods are “cheats”
“Mods are cheating” has been a claim made by certain publishers for a while now.
There was never any need. All the micro transactions were just time skips for the dumb. The systems are the same dragons dogma systems they had in the first one. They didn’t artificially change things to be grinder. They just put in paid for cheats.
If you want to use them, that’s fine, and certainly, this over paying for it. But people framing this as a need is bad. Which is expected of eurogamers headlines the past few years.
Nobody has ever claimed you need them to finish the game.
The frequently spoken rule of thumb for micro-transactions being “not a big deal” is that they should be cosmetic only if the base game isn’t free.
This game’s micro-transactions are gameplay modifying items and in-game currency packs. That’s a violation of the rule of thumb, so lots of us are saying it’s a big deal.
I don’t want this normalized. Because if it becomes the norm then full pay to win is much easier to normalize.
But even without that fear, it’s absolutely just gross on its own.
They deserve all of the negative reviews and press they’re getting for it.
You can frame this as I don’t like non cosmetic microtransactions if you like. But you have to agree that isn’t what 99% of the online discourse is doing. Almost everyone is making statements that are not true because they want to feel outraged and want others to feel outraged, and because they have been lied to by another person’s outrage.
It’s a hurricane of lies, and it’s honestly been worse on lemmy than on reddit.
If someone is telling lies they should be called out for it, but in matter-of-fact way to avoid pointless drama, while providing sources for the truth.
I haven’t seen any of that, myself.
I have seen lots of “it’s not that bad get over it” kind of posts but none with any convincing reason why we should accept dark patterns like this in games.
This is a slippery slope fallacy. Adding paid for cheats in single player games doesn’t make pay to win more normalised if you have a sense of a moral limit. My limit is when game design is changed to account for microtransations. Shadow of Morder was horrible because the game was almost unplayable without it’s boosters. Dragons Dogma is the same game.
If Elden Ring came out and had boosters I’d feel the same way. I’d ignore them and feel weird about people who used them. But it literally doesn’t effect the game for me or my experience if they existed or didn’t
Tell that to the horse armor lol back in the day no one would buy a game with these kind of MTX and we would laugh at it. But now we’re saying “it’s not that bad come on, it’s still a good game”. The slippery slope is very much a thing.
No one was saying “no one would buy a game with these kinds of MTX” Skyrim was already out and wildly successful at that point and secondly the Skyrim horse Armor criticisms were amount Bethesda adding paid mods to get cuts of all mods which is a hugely different situation. When Diablo IV and Street Fighter created extremely overpriced costumes we laugh at them because it’s stupid to assume anyone is going to buy them
Oh, my dear, sweet summer child, they’re not talking about Skyrim. When people say “horse armour” they’re talking about one thing:
In the year of our lord 2006, when Skyrim was still half a decade away. the Xbox 360 release of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion had a $2.50 “DLC” for two sets of horse armour, and it was roundly mocked for it. It wasn’t the first microtransaction, but it was certainly the first one that set everyone talking about its absurdity. The conversation was absolutely about charging money for cosmetics. In fact the general tone was, perhaps ironically, the opposite of today’s prevailing zeitgeist; this was a time when people were accustomed to spending $10-20 for a sizable “expansion pack” or “content disc”, and the idea of dropping $2.50 for horse armour that didn’t even do anything was absolutely ludicrous.
Fair enough, I don’t really remember that and I guess Horse Armor is almost a recurring event at this point
This is the slope having already slipped.
It’s not a fallacy to say that this is gameplay features for pay and I am only ok with cosmetics being for pay in a game that isn’t free at its base.
I don’t want to let them move that goalpost.
Also, not all slippery slope arguments are fallacious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
While it is possible that a company like Capcom, driven to increase its profit margin, and having normalized pay-to-win-through-convenience-features in this game would choose to not do more pay-to-win options with deeper gameplay impacts in a future game.
Being vocal about hating this game’s micro-transactions, especially with the reviews going so negative, is one of the only ways we can communicate that we don’t want either.
I never said all Slippery Slope are incorrect. I just think this isn’t one of them
In order for an argument to be a slippery slope argument it needs to require that step one leads to step two.
My argument wasn’t even a slippery slope argument and is therefore not the slippery slope fallacy.
My claim was that normalizing this type of pay-to-win-light game design makes it easier for them to normalize pay-to-win-full game design. It did not claim that normalizing this will lead to normalizing that.
I don’t want either in my games.
If we push back against this now it should make them think twice about considering full pay-to-win single player non-free games, because it could have a much bigger backlash. Which is what I was saying.
I used to be able to just cheat in the game. Just input a cheat and get infinite lives.
Why do I have to pay money for that now?
imo, even cosmetic micro-transaction stuff is disgusting. In single player its absolutely intolerable and in multiplayer its at the edge. Not only it makes creating almost non-existent content more profitable, likely at the expense of worthwhile content because any development costs money. Why make the game better when you can create more cosmetics. I’m not saying creating cosmetics is trivial, but making new skin vs creating actually new content are on completely different scales, especially when those new skins are sometimes just recolouring old ones.
Not having access to cosmetic stuff without paying extra also often detracts from the game for me. As example, in game v-rising there are some cosmetics packs for different skins for your castle’s furniture. While you can furnish the place decently with stuff you get, you can be much more creative if you have access to the alternative skins.
If they were all part of some larger expansion pack with something more than just skins, I could accept it but if i have to buy every theme pack separately, I’m not going to do that. I would have much less money available if i had to buy every damn dlc to every game I play. I’d say building and decorating your castle is 50% of the game, less if you don’t care about how your castle looks at all. Not buying these dlc make the game less enjoyable for me.
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I’d rather they didn’t do this at all.
Please, let’s not nornalize nickel-and-diming your customers.
And in this game your looks matter so much that you can buy an item to let you change them with real money!
I just finished the “normal” ending a few hours ago. I fast travelled like, 4-5 times? placed down two portcrystals, never used?
I admittedly kinda sped through just to get an idea of the game, and plan to restart hopefully after a PC upgrade and some performance patches, but fast travel really is just not something you really need. The main quest is pretty clever about providing easy ways to keep you moving along, and most quests are pretty localized into an area.
The first game had the same micro transactions too. It’s hilarious to me how everyone seems to have forgotten this.
I think a lot of people played Dark Arisen which came with everything packaged.
if we just comply and accept all this shit, next step will be ramping up the things that make people want to buy these stupid microtransactions. In context of dragons dogma examples could be making rift crystal gain so awful you have to grind for them, making class changes cost rift crystals, making more items that you can only get with real money.
And most of all, this is SINGLE PLAYER, if someone isnt disgusted by these kinds of microtransactions in this game on principle, I dont even know anymore what to say.
But as silverlining for all this shit, at least greedy executives will see making games more challenging as profitable thing to do. Though unfortunately it will likely also mean challenge will come from having to do a lot of unfun stuff to get anywhere vs pay money so you dont have to because people who make these decisions only care about money and people will give it to them and defend them for it no matter what.
I think the biggest misconception is that there is some mtx shop where you can buy game items. The steam store page for the game has some items in the dlc section that were available in the deluxe edition. 5 wakestones, 1 port stone, etc. It isn’t an unlimited amount to purchase. It’s essentially “did you decide not to buy the deluxe edition but regret it now for some reason? well here are the items included in the deluxe edition that you didn’t get.” There’s no buy all the fast travel i want scenario. It’s maddening to keep seeing this line because it’s clear to anyone who’s actually played the game.
I could get the game for free, the mtx for free, and could want to play it, and would still never do it, because of how stupid this is. Sorry studio artists, your work is forever tainted for the choices of your owners. It will never shine through their dense immoral greed of your masters.
You’re just denying yourself a really fun experience. The game is actually really good especially if you’re able to download it without paying if the whole morality thing is what’s stopping you. If it’s available I’d get it.
I won’t stand for it, it’s just not worth it. There’s other fun games that don’t associate with mafia scum. I dislike how they steal money and consecutively contribute negatively to humanity
You mean capitalism? Good luck.
No. Good luck
I dislike how they steal money and consecutively contribute negatively to humanity
Steal money, I’m assuming in this case, is sell a product. They aren’t forcing anyone to buy it, but it is scummy as hell. That’s capitalism for you.
Contribute negatively to humanity, I’m not sure what that means. If it means exploiting people, that’s capitalism!
There are no non-indie studios not participating in this. It sucks, but the goal (in capitalism) is to maximize profits. They are attempting to milk customers as much as they can for this purpose. This game isn’t even particularly bad about it. Modern gaming all is like this and it’s aweful, but it is what it is. You can participate in this game or not, but this one game isn’t the only place this is happening. It’s happening literally everywhere, like egg prices going up due to “supply shortages” and never going back to normal. That’s capitalism.
They literally steal money. That’s your problem, you think they are following your rules and swallow that they are engaged in conduct that is okay without scrutinising it in the least because it would be a real hassle and you know nobody would deal with it anyway. Because this is the only way to make a difference. I am a game developer, I know the industry, the bastards in these mafia cells are straight up stealing. Nobody creative has any choice. Nobody has a fucking supply shortage. Creatives are being abused, I want to only participate when I can be assured these insane practices are not involved. It’s not capitalism it’s pure greedy crime
That’s your problem, you think they are following your rules and swallow that they are engaged in conduct that is okay without scrutinising it in the least because it would be a real hassle and you know nobody would deal with it anyway.
Please, read my comment again. I scrutinized it. It’s just that it’s fucking everywhere. This game is getting a ton of shit for it and it isn’t even a very bad offender. It sucks, but this isn’t the game that deserves the hate. At least it’s not loot boxes or other gambling mechanics. Also, it’s not theft. It’s manipulative, but it’s not “literally stealing”.
I want to only participate when I can be assured these insane practices are not involved.
This will never happen. If they’re incentivized to do scummy things to make more profit, you can almost be assured they’ll do it. Regardless, you can never be sure it’s not happening. Remember how we hear about sexual abuse occasionally and it turns out it’s been happening for decades? Yeah, now think about how often they’re doing things that aren’t technically illegal that we don’t hear about.
It’s not capitalism it’s pure greedy crime
If greedy crime is profitable, that’s capitalism incentivizing it. The goal of capitalism is to maximize profits. That goal does not align with what we should want it to. We should prioritize happiness, good, creativity, or almost anything else. That’s not the system we’re in though.
There are lots of good games out there from moral companies. He doesn’t need to play this one.
If the community fixed the game, I want a discount.
Get the five finger/seven seas discount
I might know why Capcom tried to start a war on mods a month or so ago…
I still want to play DG2, but I can afford to wait until it costs a value I think it’s worth. It’s not like there’s a shortage of games to play or anything.
No, this has always been Capcom’s mode of operation. Unnecessary micro transactions were in the first DD 12 years ago. Look at their other games as well, bullshit tokens to change the appearance of your character in Monster Hunter Rise, etc pp.
There’s is no need for the microtransactions in the first place.
They don’t help you at all other than the first dozen hours, and the way they would help you will ruin your game curve.
The game isn’t designed around you having a portcrystal day one.
Edit: The game is a power fantasy. The whole point is you start out weak as shit where three goblins own you and you grow to the point you are using a half dozen weapons you’ve become a master in to kill dragons in seconds.
Buying more power at the beginning of that curve ruins the entire point of the game. This was CAPCOM execs saying “you need to put microtransactions in the game” and then the devs going “ok, how about this piece of junk over here players will have stacks of by endgame that could be a microtransaction.” And then the CAPCOM exec signing off who didn’t even play the game going “great, this will make shareholders happy.”
The only thing that’s useful is the portcrystal, and you will max out the number you can even use in a NG+ playthrough.
TLDR: Don’t buy the mtx and don’t use the mods either. These aren’t supposed to be part of your power curve in the game and were an afterthought that ruins the design if used.
I think a lot of people complaining have never played the game, and also apparently didn’t play the first game either.
were an afterthought that ruins the design if used
So a terrible idea then?
Yes, absolutely - CAPCOM sucks with this thing.
But crucially a terrible idea independent of the actual game design, unlike things such as Assassin’s Creed where it takes twice as long to level as it should because it was paced around buying XP boosts in a single player game.
In this case, it’s a terrible idea that would make the gameplay worse if bought, not a terrible idea that makes the gameplay worse unless bought.
Which is a very, very big difference.
It’s not that big of a difference because if people still purchase it but don’t purchase the microtransactions as you suggest, the message sent to the studio is: “People don’t mind microtransactions in games, we just need to tweak them to make them more desirable” ie. more necessary in the next game they release.
At which point the games sell worse, review worse, and the franchise effectively dies off as the publisher scrambles to reboot it (as with Ubisoft).
Your argument is somewhere in between a slippery slope and strawman.
This game right here and now is a game that isn’t designed around the mtx and so buying it or modding it in is a stupid idea for people to do, whereas a game built around mtx is going to be less enjoyable unless you buy it or mod it in.
When one day you have a future CAPCOM open world RPG designed with the mtx in mind, then you’ll have a point.
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