- cross-posted to:
- autism@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- autism@lemmy.world
"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”
and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay."
-a 15yo autistic girl experiencing ABA therapy
What’s ABA theory? But anyway, spot on.
From a quick search, it’s basically a therapy where, instead of figuring out why the patient is upset, you train them like a dog. And not even the training where you do gentle redirection from bad behaviours. The kind where you whap the “patient” (ie victim) for being “abnormal” so they effectively become a nervous wreck who does as you please to avoid being hurt
Sounds like every conservative’s wet dream.
That sounds more like the reason why a person would need a therapist to begin with, rather than any kind of actual treatment.
Note that even what we pejoratively call “training like a dog” is so obsolete that I’ve seen/read more than one dog trainer get a bit offended for comparing their profession to ABA. Ultimately, the problem with ABA is that it assumes that the object to be worked with isn’t a subject worthy of being considered sentient, or of being capable of accurately expressing their needs or preferences, or that their mental processes are either too obscure or too wrong to even begin to take them into consideration, but rather that it’s just a very simple organism that you have to punish or reward until it learns to pretend to appear “human enough” in your eyes.
You’d think we would have shelved it already when we already know a lot in the differences in the mental processes of autistic people.
*therapy. Sounds like some sort of “Autism cure” by christians. Which would be as effective and tortuous as “Gay convertion therapy”
Some people think it’s some kind of autism cure. It’s just understanding the reasons behind behaviors in order to increase behaviors that are desirable and decrease behaviors that are undesirable. Problems could arise from what ends up being defined as undesirable behavior and how that reinforcement is done but that’s true of basically anything with the goal of changing behaviors.
My wife is autistic and studied it herself because it helped her understand all the “social bullshit” as she called it.
Approaching it from the point of view of the autistic person trying to understand the traditional social interaction behaviors, to mimic them by choice for their own profit, sounds beneficial. Approaching it from a goal of forcing the autistic person to behave according to traditional social interactions for the benefit of others and the profit of the therapist, does not.
Pretty much yeah. That’s the problem and how it can become a very bad thing. Same as really any method that seeks to shape behaviors. Are you targeting this behavior because it actually causes distress and interferes with the autistic person’s enjoyment of life? Or are you just trying to breed conformity for the sake of conformity?
I’m going to disagree with the other comment and claim that you’ve made a very good observation. Even though conversion therapies and ABA may somewhat differ in their methods, the both of them are born from the basis of wanting to use operant conditioning on humans, and ignore everything else that we’ve learned about the psychology and neurology of humans that explain why it’s a dogshit idea.
The others have pretty much answered about it, but specifically, it’s a very intense, very personal therapy, with some sessions lasting up to 8 hours. It’s typically one-on-one with the therapist, who will be observing every behavior and rewarding behaviors that are desired. I haven’t heard of any that do it around here, but I am sure some therapists ‘punish’ for behaviors that they do not want to see again.
As was noted in the other replies, it can be extremely demeaning to reduce a person to their behaviors alone, and a great abyss lies next to the feet of any therapist that easily conceals abusive or immoral practices… and those feet are on a slippery slope of scree.
Applied Behavior Analysis therapy.
That sounds like a euphemism for hitting people.
It does still allow for aversives, so… Kinda?
Edit: This response was for a different reply, little app goof going on.
Applied Behavior Analysis
so… like CBT, but you don’t enjoy the torture-part nearly as much?
It’s a branch of behaviorism but it is a distinct branch from CBT. CBT involves cognition and behavior analysts don’t work with thoughts, just behaviors. Like any therapy, it can be misused or it can be helpful, depending on your skill and sensitivity as a therapist. Behavior therapies are not about torture. They are therapies and aim to be helpful. Your mileage may vary though depending on what you want from therapy and how skillful your therapist is.
I think you got wooshed, cause I’m pretty sure the CBT being referred to is cock and ball torture.
Though maybe I got wooshed, I’m not 100% sure.
Sometimes you get wooshed I guess
I am surprised how well this played out.
yes, I was aiming exactly for the ambiguity between the 2 meanings of CBT.