• WillStealYourUsername
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    3 months ago

    What’s with all the tankies recently? If they wanted to change things for the better they would organize and vote for biden, even if he sucks. The organizing is the important part anyways, voting is just damage control.

    EDIT: In case it was unclear, I do not mean organize to vote for biden.

    EDIT: I am an idiot. This is a primary. Don’t vote for biden if there is a better candidate.

          • @PunnyName@lemmy.world
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            63 months ago

            But he’s going to win via the Spoiler Effect if people keep this third party shit up.

            A vote against Biden is a vote for Fuckface 45.

            Until we get rid of First Past the Post voting, at least.

            • @spujb@lemmy.cafe
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              163 months ago

              the meme is about a primary election in which Democrats are running against Democrats. no one partaking in this movement is planning to vote 3rd party. you are making uninformed statements, shadow boxing with a situation that doesn’t exist.

                • @spujb@lemmy.cafe
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                  133 months ago

                  the biden administration is currently complicit in genocide. maybe if it wants to survive it should consider not being complicit in genocide. 🐛

                • @FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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                  83 months ago

                  Double negative there with the don’t aren’t, but to answer your question we believe that the people voting in DNC Primaries are going to vote DNC in the general. Anybody who doesn’t probably isn’t informed enough to be a part of the noncommitted movement to begin with.

                  • @PunnyName@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    You seem like a logical person. I’d like to circle back to the Uncommitted thesis that Biden is in support of genocide, if you will. Since this is the crux of the whole voting campaign.

                    If you would allow me to ask 4 questions about this whole Uncommitted campaign:

                    1. What action(s) is Joe Biden doing that is a DIRECT support of genocide?

                    2. What action(s) is Joe Biden actively NOT doing that is a direct support of genocide?

                    3. What action(s) should Joe Biden BEGIN to do to that does not support genocide?

                    4. What action(s) should Joe Biden STOP doing right now to avoid supporting genocide?

                    I ask these 4 questions, because right now, I’m not seeing much actual definition of actions that define the support of genocide, nor the quelling of genocidal support.

                    Should he be sending troops? …talking? …cyber warfare? …sanctions? …carpet bombing? …ghosting? …written threats? …dehumanization? …assassination?
                    These are all examples of actions. There are more things, of course. But right now, I’m not seeing any clarification - no specificity - just absolutist rhetoric from the Uncommitted.
                    And I’d like to know more.

        • LinkOpensChest.wav
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          133 months ago

          Not even remotely lol. Like what? It’s a primary, get a grip

            • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              If you vote for Biden in the primary and not uncommitted or another candidate, you stand against Palestine, plain and simple. Why the fuck is people shutting up and falling in line so important to you when that means letting biden aid and allow genocide? Rhetorical question btw

      • @mobius_slip@beehaw.org
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        83 months ago

        I think most people here are all for that, but if Trump is president, it’s going to get so much worse.

        Voting in a two party system is a raw deal, but it’s the only deal we have.

        • @glizzyguzzler
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          3 months ago

          You do not understand the US primary system, in it only the Democrats are running against each other. Biden is popular and will win, the uncommitted vote is to show how many people care deeply about ending the genocide of the Palestinians. It is safe because there are no fascists as front runners in the US democrat primary.

          Due to the two party system/first past the post the US primary is the only safe place to show discontent via vote on a national level. (And only during a 2nd term year)

          The genocide of the Palestinians is a very, very horrendous action that is still taking place as I type. This has motivated a significant chunk of people to protest vote, in a way that does not enable fascists.

        • @FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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          43 months ago

          I think most people here are all for that

          Judging by the number of memes by both groups, I don’t think Lemmy has reached any consensus. A lot of the anti-Biden stuff seems bot-like or a shill network but that might just be reflective of the intelligence of the average Trump enthusiast, who do exist here.

        • @glizzyguzzler
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          3 months ago

          ?? Unionize what ?? and this is actually a vote against fascism. Israel’s Zionist gov is very fascist and is committing active genocide against a people they view as 2nd class. This vote is getting the US government to use its outsized influence on Israel to end the Palestinian genocide.

          The US primary election during an incumbent’s 2nd term reelection is the only place to safely vote like this on a national level in the US’s two party/first past the pole system. The incumbent is guaranteed to sweep, so people who care to enact a much needed end to genocide can vote to show their support for ending Palestinians being murdered.

          (In the US, the term unionize is tied to worker groups acting as a collective bargaining unit and not tied to political movements)

          • WillStealYourUsername
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            43 months ago

            I am very much pro palestine. I’m sorry I was not aware this was a primary, in that case voting against biden makes a lot more sense. I meant unionize in the normal way, as you defined it. Unions are an excellent place to also organize protests etc. Unions are absolutely tied to political movements. Here in norway they are/were associated with the workers party, a social democratic party, however they (the party) have been drifting farther and farther towards the center over the years.

            I’ve seen people discus the election and no one brought up that it was a primary, so I foolishly assumed it wasn’t.

            • @glizzyguzzler
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              33 months ago

              Ah! Yes this protest vote is symbolic and people will not make the same for the general (real). I understand your and many others’ great worry over the protest vote. No one sane and rational would call for this protest vote for the general election when the alternate (as many others in other countries are well aware, as are we here) is the demise of the US.

              Unions have not been a significant force in the US for decades. They’re at least on the up and up recently as the cost of living has skyrocketed. Glad they’re strong there :) hope they won’t drift too wrong

              It is a grim time in the US, thanks for your interest in us! We must prevail over fascism, we will try, and hopefully we can end the genocide in Palestine while we’re at it. Some people feel it’s “too much”, but they’re being killed rapidly there, people needed to protest where they could.

        • @spujb@lemmy.cafe
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          63 months ago

          where are you from? who taught you what these words mean? tankie? unionize? you know those words have specific applications which don’t match the context in which you are using them? are you aware of how primaries work in US elections?

          /genuinely asking because your behavior is very confusing.

          • WillStealYourUsername
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            23 months ago

            my apologies, whenever I’ve seen people discus the election they didn’t mention this was a primary. In that case obviously do not vote for biden.

            • @spujb@lemmy.cafe
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              43 months ago

              bruh ok just like be careful what you’re saying with authority, maybe don’t talk with so much confidence about things you self admittedly don’t understand lol

    • @regul@lemm.ee
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      343 months ago

      “Tankie” is when you don’t vote for a candidate who supports genocide.

      The state of the online “tankie” discourse has never been worse.

      • WillStealYourUsername
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        133 months ago

        They has a hammer and sickle in their username, a symbol most socialists have abandoned because of tankies.

          • @Stovetop@lemmy.world
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            53 months ago

            I personally prefer the socialist rose over the hammer and sickle and the red star, however. Those sorts of symbols, to me at least, evoke the very agrarian-centric revolutions we associate with communism/socialism that came with the side effect of purging intellectuals (as in the USSR, DPRK, PRC, DK/Cambodia etc).

        • @spujb@lemmy.cafe
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          83 months ago

          dude that’s literally not true plspls do the smallest of google searches before you post

      • @FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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        33 months ago

        I once asked what someone meant by it and I got multiple replies from different people with distinct opposite definitions.

    • @PunnyName@lemmy.world
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      313 months ago

      Voting for president is damage control.

      Real action is local. And voting local is far more influential in the long run.

      • WillStealYourUsername
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        103 months ago

        Yeah? So do I. But how do none of you understand game theory? You are not sending a message by not voting for biden.

        • @glizzyguzzler
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          183 months ago

          You do not understand the US primary system, in it only the Democrats are running against each other. Biden is popular and will win, the uncommitted vote is to show how many people care deeply about ending the genocide of the Palestinians. It is safe because there are no fascists as front runners in the US democrat primary.

          Due to the two party system/first past the post the US primary is the only safe place to show discontent via vote on a national level. (And only during a 2nd term year)

          The genocide of the Palestinians is a very, very horrendous action that is still taking place as I type. This has motivated a significant chunk of people to protest vote, in a way that does not enable fascists

    • @kiljoy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      73 months ago

      I love how not voting for a politician who doesn’t represent my values is a bad thing. The founding fathers would puke if they saw how things are ran today.