Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” [Y/N]
Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” [Y/N]
The electoral Congress decides who’s president, though. Why shouldn’t I as a far-leftist vote third party to express my discontentment with a democratic party that only wants to appeal to the right? I’m tired of people telling me Biden is good enough when we had a actual progressive who had a shot just a few years ago. The climate can’t wait, and the Palestinian people certainly can’t. A placid, centrist left in the face of fascism looks useless to me I’m not sorry. Read a fucking history book.
People often say that voting third party is throwing away your vote, but using your vote as a protest like you describe is perfectly valid. Politicians from the major parties do care about how they can appeal to swingable voters, and third parties getting more votes does makes them more influential for future policy. You give up having influence between the two people who actually have a chance in the current election, but realistically you didn’t in the first place if you don’t live in a battleground state.
It’s your vote. Don’t let other people chide you for not spending it on what they think you should. Just use it for a cause that’s worthwhile to you. It’s the people who don’t vote at all that get ignored.
Fuck I needed to hear that, thanks. I just believe a lot of Biden voters are relentlessly optimistic and more than a little naive- there’s a lot of propaganda afoot lately but I think it’s important to talk about my choice too. Obviously we need things like ranked-choice voting for third party votes in this country to make a real difference ASAP but IIRC if a party’s candidate gets even 5% of the vote in a election they qualify for some federal funding. I don’t think it’s impossible to fight for better representation and win in the long run that way.
If you live in a state that’s not contested, sure vote third party if that makes you feel better. But the reality is that not voting blue in any purple state does benefit the party you are less aligned with. So in the case of a leftist it would benefit republicans. I also would love an alternative to a two party system but in THIS election a vote that benefits republicans is a vote for a 1 party system.
It will continue to be that way in every election as long as people resign themselves to voting for either party that has no intention of ever giving you a “fix” to the two party system. Why would a Democrat or a Republican want to get a third party elected? Makes 0 sense. Let’s say you vote for a Democrat… How does that then incentivize them to do anything differently than how they’re already doing it? Your voting for them is tacit approval of their current agenda and party machinations. If they don’t lose or get challenged by something further to the left, they will never move left. They will continue to pander towards centerist voters. Since our Overton window is already right of center with the Democrats basically being center-right and the Republicans being further right, they will only move rightwards with this strategy. They only pander towards centrists because the centrist vote isn’t guaranteed. So in order for them to move leftward, they need to see that the left voter is not a guaranteed vote. The only way to do that at the ballot box is by voting for someone further to the left than the Democratic party. Yes that might mean that Democrats start to lose, but if they do it’s their own damn fault for not appealing to the leftist voter.
You had an actual progressive years ago…yes. You don’t have one this year.
You say the climate can’t wait…so which path is better: 1 - push for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, invest $2T in green tech and infrastructure, OR 2 - boost oil and gas production, roll back environmental regulations
Palestine can’t wait…which path is better: 1 - publicly support Israel while pressuring them to limit civilian casualties, work towards a cease fire OR 2 - sending ICE to break up pro-Palestinian protests in the US to remove any protesters here illegally, implement ideological screening as part of the immigration process, stoke anti-muslim sentiment here and abroad.
Read a fucking history book? The Repub is using the same power-consolidation strategy as Hitler, there’s Nazis chilling at cpac, LGBTQ folks are being targeted by Republicans across the country, burning books, politicians changing the contents of history curriculum…they say history doesn’t repeat itself but it sure does rhyme. Well, this is straight-up plagiarism.
Yes because there are two paths, only two. Revolution is never a option and we should eat ALLLLL the shit they feed us, thankful for scraps as the fires burn more and more intense. 2050? Do you hear yourself? The damage is already irreparable, that’s far too late. We need action now and a president who hasn’t sold their soul to oil, if such a thing could ever possibly exist. I AM lgbt (trans) and IMHO this is a problem because he’s looking out for conservative billionaires instead. I tell you to look at the history because I agree, the Republicans are Nazis… And a centrist left conceded power to them or had it stolen then too.
Show the viable candidate.
I’m not calling for a violent revolution because I’ve been to a war zone before, and I don’t want that here. That’s the only 3rd path I see for this election cycle. My daughter is also LGBTQIA so it’s personal for me too.
Does there have to be one for joe biden to be bad? I’m sure there’s a least a million individual people who could do the job better. At the end of the day I just don’t see any reason to defend the guy, he seemingly has no real passion or empathy and is leaving a lot in this country undone or worse for the wear whilst letting the right fearmonger incessantly
I mean, there has to be a President…and it’s nearly a statistical guarantee that it will be Trump or Biden unless one of them dies before November. So no, there doesn’t have to be a good candidate for Biden to be a bad one…but he’s the best option we have this time around. Like, if I had 2 options for a house for my kids to live in and 1 is rundown shithole and has lead paint and a busted up foundation and the other a cardboard box under an overpass I’ll take the lead paint while I work for something better…every time.
Well there has to come a point when the second option’s just not worth settling for. That analogy is so spot on it hurts that you can’t see my point.
Ok…since my analogy is so spot on. Where do your kids live in that scenario while you get back on your feet? In the box outside or the old house with lead paint?
Well I decided when I was like ten that this world is faaaaar too fucked up to bring children into so I can’t relate there but going to bat for career politicians online isn’t gonna make things any better. Biden has even called himself a capitalist before- I truly believe in my tired heart he’s standing in the way of progress a great deal more than he’s championing it. I don’t waste my time typing out a response here just for fun.
This is precisely why you should vote for Democrats. The Nazi rise to power is a cautionary tale of what happens when both liberals and leftists don’t take the fascist threat seriously. They’ll play off the fascists to try and get one over the other – you’ve pointed this out with the centrist left already, and how they gave him power. But it’s also important to recognize that the leftists weren’t terribly concerned either. “After Hitler, us!”. They foolishly thought the fascists would let there be an “after” and resigned themselves.
There is only one path forward, and I like to explain it in terms of LotR. The dwarves and elves may dislike each other and sometimes be on the verge of war, but as soon as the orcs appear, they work together as one. The fascists warrant our full attention and scorn. We can never make the same mistake of the Germans to let animosity among those left of center take priority over stomping out fascists.
You’re wasting your time, I already laid out why. Biden is Saruman, dude, that’s my take. I hope I’m wrong, but I think you’ll all feel real foolish for defending this guy someday. I hate fascists and that’s why I can’t settle for Biden; IMHO he’s not anti-fascist or progressive enough to put up a good fight. Especially as a individual, thank gods he has some good people on staff but I still look at Biden and think the dude couldn’t manage a pretend waffle house, let alone a country. And his track record as senator constantly gets swept under the rug, too. He voted for segragation ffs
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you.
You’re not just doing a protest. If you believe in left values, you’re making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
It’s downright selfish imho.
democrats, especially joe biden, are not on the left
They’re realistically though the closest thing we have. They absolutely do less damage when in office. If you actually want things to get better. We have to stop doing damage or at least slow down the damage first. It’s basic logic.
he wrote the usa patriot act and the crime bill. he stopped student debt from being discharged in bankruptcy. bill clinton pushed “welfare reform”. obama destroyed habeas corpus, murdering a us citizen without trial. kids-in-cages is an obama era policy. obama signed taarp.
i don’t believe they do less damage at all.
I believe that you believe that. But I also know that your belief in that doesn’t make it true. Whether or not one approves of Obama’s actions with drones overseas. Which for the record I don’t. He didn’t end habeas corpus. You are being hyperbolic and disingenuous. Despite my disproval of it. It was a one-time thing with some fairly decent justification behind it. That hasn’t led to any actual policy changes that could be pointed out.
The Patriot Act per Wikipedia
Completely unsurprising. You’re lying again. To be fair Biden did claim credit. Stupid liberal doin stupid liberal things.
As far as TARP was concerned. Was there anything they could have realistically done that you would have approved of? No? Then why should we care what you think. Yes, tarp was a bit of a crock of shit. But unfortunately it was the best we were going to get and it was a good thing that we did get it ultimately.
As far as blocking student loan debt from being expunged with bankruptcy. Yes, stupid liberal doing stupid liberal things. However, Biden is also been one of the most active pushing for forgiveness of student loan debt. Could you be any more fake or disingenuous?
what’s Joe Biden lying too?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act
I pointed out that he claimed that. Seems you missed that part. Well if you were being genuine. But I don’t mistake you for being genuine. It isn’t recorded anywhere that I could find that he wrote it. Joe, Biden claiming that he did only means that he claims that he did. It doesn’t mean that he did.
this is another accusation of disingenuity that is, itself, evidence of bad faith engagement.
everything they said was right. your accusation of disengenuity is itself bad faith. just because you don’t believe somebody could be to the left of Joe Biden and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton doesn’t make you right.
thank you
I’ve about given up. It seems as though most of lemmy is more than happy to smugly let the perfect destroy the good.
I’m sure the additional dead kids in Palestine and Ukraine and very likely most of the middle east and Europe or Russia (depending on how NATO fares after the US leaves) will thank them for voting for RFK Jr or Jill Stein or Mickey Mouse. I don’t think my daughter will thank them when she gets sent to federally mandated “don’t be gay” camp or has to hide who she is for the rest of her life but hey, at least we made a point. Just like vaccines, sometimes I guess we have to suffer as a species to remember things.
Man, I’m jaded today.
You have to remember a lot of the people posting that bs likely aren’t Americans and either have an anti western agenda or are being paid to post divisive shit. It’s annoying because Lemmy is such a small community that these accounts appear wayyyyy more than they really should, so it gives the impression that there’s loads of them, but really they are a minority. Chances are they also have a bunch of smurf accounts so it could literally just be one room of guys posting mountains of bullshit every day.
Or there are lots of genuine American leftists in this space like me that believe the things they’re saying and are trying to argue for a better world or a solution. And then they get met with comments that tell them they’re likely not Americans or they’re anti-West or that they’re getting paid to shill. How do I know you’re not getting paid to post what you said? How do I know you’re not some pro-Democrat smurf account run by some party staffer? But instead of asking, what if I made a comment that just said you probably were?
“anti-west” … i mean… where is marx from? proudhon? bakhunin? foucault?
anti-west is a reactionary dogwhistle for “commie scum”. it’s red scare bullshit.
and anyone who uses the term uniroically now is an actual white nationalist, a paid cia shill, or someone who has bought into the rhetoric of one of the first two, with or without realizing it.
and you know what, i love that you went on the attack here. this is the lesson i learned in 2016: we live in a post-truth world, no one will believe anything except what they want to believe, so there is no point in defending a position. don’t apologize. don’t backpedal. attack, attack, attack.
Arguably they’re more left than the right is left.
Far lefter than anything the repugnicunts are fronting these decades.
no it doesn’t. the vote belongs to the voter, and they can give it to any candidate they like. the votes are not owned by the 2 major parties.
i think they’d rather some other candidate win. that’s probably why they’re voting for some other candidate
they’re not calling it a protest, either. they’re calling it a vote.
Liberals aren’t left. I like this take by Phil Ochs
"In every American community, you have varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
And I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I’d lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I’m a liberal
Get it?"
Nearing on sixty years, and this song never gets old. 🖤