Lately we have been dealing with a few abusive members from Feddit.nl and we were unable to get in touch with the instance administrator.
Part of the problem is the instance’s open registrations which do not require you to enter an e-mail address during signup. This in combination with an inactive admin is a recipe for abuse.
We hope this is only temporary but we have to do this to protect our users.
Edit: we use fediseer, have a look https://gui.fediseer.com/instances/detail/lemmy.world
Edit 2: We got in touch with the Feddit.nl admin. Email requirements were added to the sign-up process and we’re setting up a communication channel. So that means we are federating with Feddit.nl again!
What about abusive users that post in communities outside of their home instance? I think that’s what we’re talking about here. I can block instances, but there are communities in Lemmy.world that I enjoy and I appreciate the admins effort to keep abusive users out.
Each user can block other users. Moderators can block users. It can be handled the same way that other sites (yes, like reddit) do it. I’m also not opposed to defederation when it is essentially a single-user ban- for example, if there is an instance with no communities, no signup requirement, and has nothing but malicious bots- that’s banning a bot farm, not “defederation” as it’s commonly understood. But with something like this- where feddit.nl is actually a rather large instance- so many people are essentially being punished for absolutely no fault of their own.
Do you understand that when CSAM images are uploaded to an instance, they are federated to other instances as well?
Even if users have the option to block whole instances themselves, there are STILL going to be instances Lemmy World will not be federating with because we don’t want to risk having any of that on our server.
And feddit.nl had a user that posted csam on our instance, which then federates to other instances. So basically everyone gets a copy.
I do understand. I’m expressing a worry that things like this will lead to trouble for the fediverse’s user retention. Nowhere did I say that I didn’t understand the reasoning. It’s not a requirement to have a solution at hand when pointing out a problem. An instance as large as lemmy.world defederating from an instance as large as feddit.nl is a problem. Is the solution giving moderators better tools? Stopping the automatic proliferation of images? Removing the image hosting entirely to rely on external hosts? Or is this an insurmountable problem with no solution? The specific answer, or even existence of an answer, does not determine whether the problem itself exists.
@PrinceHabib72 @antik are you concern trolling? Because this sounds like concern trolling. You know what they say, you let one Nazi in your bar, soon enough you’ll own the Nazi bar.
I’m legitimately unfamiliar with the term. I’m being very genuine. I’m not sure what you mean about the Nazi bar, either. I’m encouraging users to curate their own experiences. Any time they see a Nazi, they can figuratively erase that Nazi from their personal existence. If they see a Nazi bar, they can erase that too. I object to being TOLD, rather than deciding for myself, what bars are Nazi bars.
@PrinceHabib72 The metaphor is not from the individual but from the bar owner’s (or instance admin, if you will) POV.
One Nazi shows up at a bar, the owner goes to kick him out. But a concerned patron disuades him by saying that free speech is important and if anyone doesn’t want to talk to the Nazi they are free to ignore him. They are perfectly capable of choosing who to talk to and don’t stand to be TOLD who they can or can’t talk to.
@PrinceHabib72 The next day the Nazi guy shows up with 9 of his friends. The other patrons notice the tattooed swastikas, banners and bigoted talk, it makes them uncomfortable. They ask the owner about, who says that they have not been rude or disturbed anyone.
But the word quickly spreads all over the neighborhood.
The third day, no other patron wants to go there anymore. Only the Nazis go to the bar. It’s a Nazi bar now. And the owner is stuck with it.
That helped me to understand what you meant, thank you, but I guess I don’t see this analogy as very accurate. A Nazi showing up at a bar and being asked to leave is not what I’m against- that’s what moderation IS. What is more accurate here is that a Nazi shows up at a bar, and a completely separate group arrives at the same time. Since they arrived together, they are ALL made to leave, despite none of them controlling the Nazi’s behavior. That’s what defederation is like on that side, and the other is that I am told that I am not allowed to visit the Nazi bar. To be clear, I have no interest in visiting the Nazi bar, but my issue is- how do I trust that it IS a Nazi bar if I’m not allowed to visit? I’ve seen so many people called “Nazi” in the past ten years it blows my mind, and of them, only a tenth or fewer are what I would consider Nazis/neo-Nazis. I’ve been called Nazi in real life because I expressed my opinion to a friend that I was disappointed Ariel was cast the way she was. Do I hate black people? No, I just think redheads are hot and I was disappointed. Juvenile, absolutely, but worth being called “Nazi” by a passersby who overheard? This is obviously an exaggerated example, but I believe the point stands.
@PrinceHabib72 And it’s only my opinion. But if speaking your mind out loud labels you a Nazi, in multiple occasions, to multiple people and contexts. Maybe it’s time to reflect and introspect deeply, reevaluate your values and principles. You might actually just be a Nazi, or close enough as to be indiscernible, and just didn’t realize.
@PrinceHabib72 More accurately, the fediverse is one single quantum entangled multidimensional bar. When you enter the door of one bar, you enter in _all_ of the bars at the same time. Every owner controls who enters or leaves their dimensional portal, but can’t control who enters through other portals. If one owner refuses to stop one Nazi, others don’t have the power to stop the one Nazi and only the one Nazi only. Their only recourse is to cutoff from that portal entirely.
There would not be a problem if the instance was managed. Everyone can start an instance but it takes a lot more to keep it running and moderated. Check the problems beehaw.org are currently going through.
And as you point out, feddit.nl is quite a big instance but it only has ONE admin. That is a problem. And that is also something to remember when you decide on which instance you want to host your community.
I don’t host a community. At a basic level, I would like the ability to view (and I mean VIEW, not even necessarily interact with- I cannot force my interaction on anyone) the entire fediverse for myself. If other people want others to tell them which areas align with their views, they can join instances that block other instances from being able to participate. I just wish that didn’t mean the defederated instance could no longer even view the blocking instance.
It sounds like you should host an instance. This will give you the abilities you want, unless you provoke defederation from someone.
I’m unfortunately unable to host an instance. I wish I could, honestly.