Read the comments in the chains that are beneath it. https://old.reddit.com/comments/13ylk42/comment/jmnp04a
My participation will be low here for the time being, but this is something that affects all. Brace yourselves.
Additional information that borderline fascistic instances like sopuli.xyz already exist (Finland NATO supporter), and lemmy.one (PrivacyGuides admin) is run by a US/Canada nationalist that defederated Lemmygrad day 1 and calls people here liberals.
I’m not worried.
We don’t have aspirations at lemmygrad to become the biggest or most active instance. We’re happy to have a space where we can be with each other. If we wanted to be big we wouldn’t be running a communist instance. In fact, we get a lot of new account requests, but we deny a lot of them for being ultras or anarchists (some we let through if they seem good).
Those new arrivals don’t understand the nature of federation and the nature of open source software. Like others have said, they want reddit just on a different domain name. Then let them have their Reddit, I’d rather they confine themselves to a single space than spread all over the fediverse.
Frankly Lemmygrad can survive without federation, what’s important is that Lemmy is the most advanced open source software to run a link aggregator, no other project comes close. Someone in the reddit thread was saying that because of the devs’ political leanings, the project would never grow and this is exactly the type of elitism reddit produces. This person discovered Lemmy yesterday, but has very strong opinions on it and apparently understands the ins and outs of the project. Meanwhile the Lemmy project keeps growing and is the most robust and popular open source alternative to Reddit. But we’re sorry our volunteer developers are not slaving away hard enough to produce your toys, great Redditor 🙏
Anyone can use lemmy, and what we should start thinking about is when the fascists will start opening their instances. There is no way you can prevent that at a fundamental code level; lemmy cannot stop anyone from opening their instance. All you can do is defederate from them. The fascists are probably not going to start opening their instances because of said politics from the devs though, so once again tankies are saving libs from fascism and get ostracized for it lol. They’ve had 4 years to try and coopt this project and they haven’t done it.
There is no way we will defederate from Lemmy.ml or that Lemmy.ml will defederate from us. People can clamor for it all they want, it’s never gonna happen. If they’re not happy on lemmy.ml then they can join one of many dead liberal instances that keep popping up because they want to be administrators of their own space rather than work with others.
We’ve handled an “exodus” before (they go back to Reddit in the end no matter how much they criticise it), we’ve handled trolls, we’ve handled DDoS attacks, they can’t bring anything we haven’t seen before.
I completely agree that this is most likely a temporary phenomenon, and once things come down in a few weeks a lot of these liberals will stop engaging.
One point I’d like to add is that we should actively participate on lemmy.ml to prevent libs from taking over. The way I look at it is that Lemmygrad is an instance where communists can talk to each other, and lemmy.ml is a place where we can educate people and counter liberal propaganda. It’s also valuable for us to see the arguments libs make and how to counter these effectively in a forum that’s not fundamentally biased against us.
Most of these “Reddit refugees” will go back whence they came once they start missing having corporate propaganda shoved down their throats 24/7 I would assume.
Which makes the whole “spirit of starting something new” over there very funny - because you know they’ll just crawl back to Reddit at some point anyways. Libs don’t have a very long attention span
Without corporations telling them what to think they’d have to develop thoughts of their own, and that’s very much at odds with being a liberal.
Agreed, someone merely mentioning they liked a community here started to get a mini brigade (post got 4 quick downs, I’m honestly surprised it recovered and came out positive). Deleted reply was something like “Tankies and communists are cringe”. Oh noes, M-Ls on a .ml domain?! How long until they notice the admin’s Che profile pictures haha.
On one hand, a little co-ordination can go a long way against votebombing. On the other, I don’t want to encourage straight-up brigading.
It’s quite a culture shock for lost redditors on Lemmy. They’re so used to their views being mainstream and basically unquestioned. All a sudden they’re not the absolute majority, and it drives them nuts. I’d advocate to just engage politiely without downvotes first, but if they brigade then we can respond in kind.
Someone in the reddit thread was saying that because of the devs’ political leanings, the project would never grow and this is exactly the type of elitism reddit produces.
Talk about a cancer cell moment. “infinite growth good infinite growth good if they can’t infinitely expand they’re baaaaaad”
and what we should start thinking about is when the fascists will start opening their instances
What did we learn from Wolfballs? (and Bakchodi… kind of. They don’t federate or interact, nor have aspirations for it last I checked, merely being a we-got-booted-from-reddit bunker). Or from Gab and other Mastodon forks? Those are the case studies that come to mind.
We probably have a while, because reactionaries have their own reddit alternatives they’ve been spinning up since 2015 and earlier, like poast and the communities.win sites, so we probably have some time to think about it before they flood in again.
We can always (and will) block them from federating, but I expect they will try to infiltrate lemmygrad and run DDoS attacks on us. Thankfully we have a pretty strong tech team and all prior attempts have failed.
We’ve handled an “exodus” before (they go back to Reddit in the end no matter how much they criticise it), we’ve handled trolls, we’ve handled DDoS attacks, they can’t bring anything we haven’t seen before.
But before this, liberal Borg/Collective has not moved like this across the internet overnight. The network effect can be overwhelming, and there will be leaks like the user who got ratio’d below. It is best to have an understanding of these other instances popping up, as there are about 10-12 major Lemmy instances now.
I remember lemmy.ml has had a few surges of new users in the past. I don’t remember if they were as big as this one, but we’ll know in a month or so how many of these new users will actually stay active on Lemmy.
The numbers update once a day on https://join-lemmy.org/instances, lemmy.ml surged up from behind us up to 1.1k and beehaw went from like ~100 to 500, but apart from that the other instances don’t show huge numbers. They also block us, so we won’t see them posting here.
Everyone should remember to use the report function. It’s accessible by clicking the three dots under a comment or post and clicking the flag icon.
And yes, you’re all allowed to debate liberals that wander here as much as you want, but please also report them if they’re anti-communist or start trolling.
How has your reading been going by the way, comrade?
Not yet read the materials, mainly because of the whole Reddit exodus thing that will be going on for a while. I have to think what to do with my privacy subreddit. I will take time to participate here unless I can fully accept where I stand on the social slider, because I am protective towards this space even if I may have to leave. I did pursue other methods into seeing redpill arguments and Jubilee YT channel middle ground debates related to alphamale/beta/feminism and such.
So they are just trying to make reddit agian, I remember being genuinely annoyed when Beehaw and Sopuli.xyz both got promoted as the go to instances, out of what seemed like nowhere, especialy given they PROUDLY did not associate with us, who at the time would flip and flop with Lemmy.ml as the largest. I now understand why they did it, and wish that more people went there instead of Lemmy.ml, or as this post reads to atleast me, determened to make Lemmy.ml just reddit but a diffrent domain name. I mean that explains the time I have been having over on Lemmy.ml
I wonder if lemmy.ml will do what /r/antiwork failed to do, and slice away all the liberals once the instance has a decent mass. It could honestly go either way.
If it’s any reconciliation, Hexbear may be federating with Lemmygrad soon.
“There is no flagship instance. The developers actively push sopuli.xyz and beehaw.org instead of lemmy.ml for multiple reasons.”
Lib is salty 😝
That’s not salty, the developers intentionally state it’s not the flagship instance and
help promote more “centrist” instanceshave stated a desire to see “mainstread, or liberal” instances to avoid lemmy.ml becoming… what it just became.Here is one of the devs saying so, in an official announcement post linked in the lemmy.ml sidebar: https://lemmy.ml/post/70280
Interesting…I wonder how the devs will respond to this situation when it unfolds
Currently i seen:
- They temp banned Yogthos for week but not anyone who were attacking him.
- They banned Freagle for 3 days for arguing, again, none of guys attacking him was banned
- They removed some comments by an open fascist troll, not banning him:
- Appointed new admin, seems kinda liberal iirc
- Only one of the new fash was banned (for a month), and he needed to write something like this:
Which community is this? Are communities allowed sovereign control over their content or does this fall onto the shoulders of the devs since it is in the primary Lemmy instance?
Afaik all lemmy communities had to respect overall lemmy rules, but they are free to make their own too. I’m not sure who deals the bans, but i guess lemmy admins can override community mods since i seen some weird ban/unban combos few times.
Yeah I checked lemmy.one and there are already threads where they trash on “tankies” and that the US security state cannot get into iPhones, sure.
Well we didn’t really think we were getting all of the Redditors, did we? This website’s existence is evidence of the liberal content of much of Reddit as well as it’s owners and controllers.
I like the idea behind Lemmy. But before the front-page was taken over by reddit-bad posts, you could see that the flagship instance lemmy.ml is largely used for pro-russian propaganda. And the main developers who also run the instance seems to be very OK with that. I honestly would have issues working with such a person.
from my experience, the tankies are (mostly) coming from @lemmygard.ml, not lemmy.ml.
not everyone’s cup of tea.
Beehaw excludes that instance and has strong moderation for safe spaces. it’s a lovely space. Lemmy.ml is more open, but is not as tolerant to assholery as lemmygrad.ml. and times are… fluid at the moment, so nothing now is how it will be in a day or a week or a month.
Stay tuned, and best wishes
I appreciate the irony of coming into a lemmygrad community to complain about tankies and say lemmygrad.ml is “tolerant to assholery”.
I’m sure you do, but why would I expect a rational counterargument from a reactionary whose ideological existence depends entirely on contrarianism rather than logic? and why would I subject myself to pointless and logical-fallacy-fuelled back-and-forth from you?
If your position had a sound argument, I would never have had anything to object to. By the tone of your indigent response, I know I can only expect trolling. i stand to gain nothing by engaging such childishness.
Invading another sovereign nation is wrong (and illegal), and, therefore, Russia is wrong.
come on man you just didnt see what instance this was posted to, this is embarrasing
if you expect me to feel bad for upsetting a bunch of fascists, you’ll be waiting forever.
The rest of the world learned how awful and evil you all were 100 years ago. time to catch up, cupcake!
huh??? You clearly left a comment thinking this was lemmy.ml, it’s ok to admit you messed up this is actual nuclear grade cope I’m reading
You are so high on your own supply, I don’t think it would be possible for you to actually craft a coherent argument for a single position you hold. Your entire post reeks of entitlement, self righteousness, and moral indignation, wrapped in virtue signaling.
The position of critical support for Russia in the proxy war with the US is sound and valid. It has 15 years of empirical evidence behind it. The liberal position is the one that requires axiomatic decontextualization in order to be even remotely defensible.
But worse, you think that the existence of a sound argument precludes the need to fight for the position. This is the brain rotten liberal position that correct ideas are all that’s necessary. As it turns out, if you pay attention to empirical evidence, false narrative has proven to be far more powerful than truth and false narrative has led to the mass genocide of hundreds of millions at the hands of the Eurocentric world powers over the last several centuries. So, not only is the critical support of Russia sound, the soundness does not preclude the need for engaging in rhetoric to combat false narratives.
And you would understand all of that if you weren’t too busy sniffing your own farts as a way to cope with the slow inexorable collapse of the North Atlantic world that threatens not only your way of life but also your world view that strains to maintain its compartmentalization while accommodating an ever increasing number of contradictions.
Please, tell me what my positions is.
Protip: Russia is a capitalist cesspit and so is Ukraine. Ukraine and Russia both only exist seperately because the USSR was dissolved, Ukraine’s control by either RF or the USA was unfortunately inevitable. I will smile if Putin is assassinated.
Pro tip:
Russia is a capitalist cesspit and so is Ukraine.
irrelevant. and no excuse for an illegal Russian invasion of another sovereign nation
Ukraine and Russia both only exist seperately because the USSR was dissolved,
irrelevant. and no excuse for an illegal Russian invasion of another sovereign nation
Ukraine’s control by either RF or the USA was unfortunately inevitable
irrelevant. and no excuse for an illegal Russian invasion of another sovereign nation
I will smile if Putin is assassinated.
you and me both, brother/sister
I don’t fall under a gender binary. It’s quicker to type “comrade”, or “friend”.
“Illegal” makes no sense in international politics like this. The dissolution of the USSR was “illegal” (majority voted against it). The founding of almost every republic on Earth was “illegal”. Almost every action taken by the CIA is “illegal”. Furthermore, legality is a horrible basis for a system of ethics or morality irregardless.
Those points were relevant to my position. No outcome is “excusable”, there was no good ending for Ukraine after the fall of the USSR, and it’s pointless to impose some idealistic mindset of what is right and wrong and justified and excused when all states (governments) involved deserve to be overthrown. Being controlled by USA/NATO or by Russia are both bad for the Ukrainian people, and any actual sovereignty would be crushed. Ukraine’s coup was only allowed to survive because of NATO strategic interest, they are unfortunately in a position where they are forced to be subservient to their nationalistic neighbour or the world major superpower.
The situation is terrible. Both sides suck, and my only allegiance is to the citizens of each country caught up in this bullshit.
I don’t fall under a gender binary. It’s quicker to type “comrade”, or “friend”.
your personal identity has zero to do with a discussion about Russia and Ukraine. while I respect your identity, it has no bearing in this discussion, so using it as a debate point is both puerile and desperate. Your personal identity (nor anything about you) has any bearing on a discussion about the geopolitics between Russia and Ukraine.
But, if you prefer to be addressed as “comrade”, I’m happy to comply. Comrade.
Those points were relevant to my position. No outcome is “excusable”, there was no good ending for Ukraine after the fall of the USSR
irrelevant
and it’s pointless to impose some idealistic mindset of what is right and wrong and justified and excused when all states (governments) involved deserve to be overthrown
if that were the circumstance, maybe, but you’re lying in proposing that’s what’s happening now-- it’s NOT. a sovereign nation has been invaded illegally by another. By lying about the circumstances here, you confess that you have no better reasoning or defense, therefore you LOSE the argument and any defensible position. You are wrong. International borders and their respect of them is NOT something I imposed, it’s something THE WORLD agreed upon. You can’t just move the goalposts when it becomes convenient for you and expect everyone else to find that acceptable or reasonable.
Being controlled by USA/NATO or by Russia
Ukraine meets neither of those criteria nor definitions.
and any actual sovereignty would be crushed
much to Russia’s (and your) chagrin, that’s not how sovereignty works. It’s not, nor has it ever been, a “bigger dick” issue-- and even if it were, Russia still hasn’t proven their “bigger dick” anyway. They keep losing!
You obviously have a NATO grudge, and you blame Ukraine, which isn’t in NATO, it makes no sense. Such irrationality only deserves mockery and derision, not a concerted response. You’re a joke for even proposing it.
you need to get your shit - and arguments - in order. you seem very confused.
If you want to bring relevance into this, a war in Eastern Europe has extremely little relevance to me, my family, my community, my co-workers and even my country, beyond the fortunate side effect of it weakening the major world superpower. This entire conversation is irrelevant.
I’m not replying to you to “win the argument”, that’s an unhealthy mindset to have when discussing serious issues. Especially when you just made blind assertions about others being contrarian. If you want to spew a bunch of fallacies and declare some kind of victory, twitter will happily accommodate the spectacle. If you actually care about Ukrainian peoples, projecting arguments onto other people and declaring some strange victory provides no solidarity or support for them. It doesn’t help us understand what is happening, and why it will happen in other countries next decade unless we help stop it.
Most of the viewpoints you just projected onto me are completely baseless. I’ve made it clear I want the dissolution of Russia. I also want the dissolution of NATO. No contradiction! I don’t know why you keep insisting I like Russia. I want it gone more than you do. If I have any grudge, it’s against the Russian Federation for willingly plunging their own people into poverty and terror.
My critique of NATO is not a grudge, it’s a recognition that they actively antagonize the sovereignty of almost the entirety of South America, Africa and the Middle East, along with much of Asia, and more. Anti-democracy, invasion and bombing. The same bullshit Russia has done to Ukraine. The sad truth is that NATO are not “good”. Russia aren’t either. There is no good side in this war. Neither side really give a fuck about Ukrainians, hell they barely care about their own citizens.
An illegal invasion is when Russia liberates Ukraine after NATO used it as a fleshlight to bomb Russia for a decade and expected Russia to turn the other cheek.
You sure as shit would be pissed if China started setting up hundreds of millions of dollars of military equipment in Mexico and started shelling Texas for 8 goddamn years, banning the English language and committing ethnic cleansing of people with American and European heritage in Mexico, killing thousands as the world turned a blind eye and blamed the U.S.
lemmygrad.ml is tolerant to assholery
Really? I started posting here today and so far I’ve only received kind and interesting replies, maybe you should try not being so negative if you don’t want “assholery” thrown at you.
Why are you posting here if you hate the place and users so much anyway? Just participate in the instances that have the content you like, you don’t need to go to the Marxist club to complain about Marxists existing there.
