It’s impossible to avoid bias. I’m much more concerned with credibility from multiple independent sources to get to a comprehensive history of the conflict and a way to resolution.
It’s impossible to avoid bias completely. It’s very much possible to recognize your bias and train yourself to have emotional detachment from a given subject. Ask a Buddhist monk, or a seasoned intelligence analyst.
Philosophical ramble below, you can stop reading here if you’re not in the mood.
Most people unfortunately never get to the stage of realizing they can detach themselves from emotional bias, so they read and believe whatever they have already read and believe and want to be true.
Side note: it’s much easier when you’re on the spectrum, or learned as a child to shut your emotions off (I’m not sure this can be learned in adulthood). It seems like many victims of childhood abuse take it in the other direction - emotional overreaction.
Over the last five months we’ve witnessed more than 30,600 Palestinians killed, more than 12,300 children and 6,300 women killed by Israel. With more than 70,000 injured. 99 Journalists killed too.
We’ve seen over 360,000 homes destroyed. Nearly 400 schools, 267 Places of Worship, over 130 water wells bombed and destroyed. 23 out of 35 Hospitals don’t function anymore since they’ve gotten shelled. With the other 12 only partially functioning. Over 85% of everyone in Gaza has been displaced.
Millions are at extreme risk of starvation and disease brought by a deliberate famine and water crisis.
Emotional detachment of things one has no personal involvement in, in order to see the situation as clearly as possible. If you are living in Gaza or have family or a good friend there then yes it’s much harder and maybe nearly impossible. I can also understand the need for emotional attachment to feel purpose by campaigning against something, but again, attachment is the enemy of objectivity.
What do you mean, I listed objective facts about what has happened in Gaza in the last five months. I think awareness is important, there is a lot of misinformation. And I am involved, my taxes fund and defend this.
The US has been supplying Israel with these weapons, knowing exactly what they are being used for, and defending Israel on the international stage by vetoing UN ceasefire resolutions repeatedly.
I don’t get what you’re advocating for. Do you support or oppose ethnic cleansing?
Immediately, I would prefer an actual permanent ceasefire and an end to the decade long permanent occupation. I would prefer the apartheid state to be dismantled and a new state with equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians to take its place. For the millions of Palestinians refugees to have the Right of Return.
You mean the annexation of at least 60% of the West Bank since 1967 with Palestinians subject to Military Law, weaponized Setter Violence, denied civil rights, denied rights to movement, water, and property?
Due to the de facto annexation of the West Bank, a Two-State Solution is no longer a practical solution. The West Bank has been divided into bantustans and require an expulsion of hundreds of thousands of settlers. It’s been a one-state reality because of the Settlements built by Israel on the West Bank. Which is why a single Binational State that would ensure equal rights for all Palestinians and Israelis is the most viable resolution.
You’re denying the investigative journalists by multiple major Human Rights Organizations, including B’TSelem (a Jewish Israeli Human Rights Org operating within Israel), detailing exactly how Israel is guilty of the Crime of Apartheid by the definitions laid out by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (Apartheid Convention) and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (Rome Statute). You could read the first few pages of any of those reports I linked, calling them childish is laughable.
But, at the moment, it’s war crimes vs. bigger war crimes. The question is, is the perpetrator of war crimes willing to stop war crimes when it’s the only conceivable leverage to stop bigger war crimes? Big war crimes likely doesn’t give a fuuuuuck about the little war crimes though - they literally killed the hostages in several situations. They are just pitching a tent because it’s an excuse for them to do even bigger war crimes.
See condemning Hamas is a joke to you. I see people cosplaying as Hamas as Palestine protests. Cosplaying as genocidal maniacs.
Condemning Hamas would have been the smart move for the Palestinian movement. But it’s too dominated by hatred to make smart moves. Which is why it’s only the young and naive that support it.
I see people cosplaying as Hamas as Palestine protests. Cosplaying as genocidal maniacs.
I can’t take you seriously.
First, Israel has committed war crimes against Palestinians for decades. When nobody plays by the rules there is no point in quoting the rules.
Very few people condone killing civilians or taking hostages. Most people support the liberation of the Palestinian people and peace.
Which is why it’s only the young and naive that support it.
Only the naive think that the situation is anywhere near as cut and dry as you seem to imply it is. And only the gullible think any fraction of the population worth mentioning are cosplaying as or celebrating the actions of Hamas.
And only the gullible think any fraction of the population worth mentioning are cosplaying as or celebrating the actions of Hamas.
This isn’t being called out, people just looking the other way.
A lot of people will say Netanyahu is a horrible leader. And in all likelihood he’ll be gone in the next election. Nobody is willing to call out Hamas, or any Palestinian leadership. So Palestinians will always be stuck with bad leaders. It’s why this conflict was inevitable. Hamas would never be removed by Palestinians, they’d be stuck with them forever if it weren’t for this current action. Too much support from naive people.
A war crime is literally a crime that happens during a war.
Crime occurs in normal day to day life too. Both of these things are terrible.
What’s important is those who do the crimes (whether in war or otherwise) face justice. Generally Israel prosecutes soldiers that commit crimes. I find it doubtful Palestinians will prosecute Yahya Sinwar for his war crimes.
Israel ended it’s occupation of Gaza a long time ago. You’re probably too young to have been following the news back then. Israel removed all it’s settlements from Gaza and withdrew it’s military. There was a lot of hope for the future of Gaza. It’s on the sea and could trade. There’s nice beaches there, so who knows, there could even be a tourist industry there.
A lot of optimism back then. This was the path to peace. Once the economy improves in Gaza, and there’s peace and prosperity there, the world could pressure Israel to do the same with the West Bank.
Then a plurality of Palestinians voted for Hamas. Hamas took power. Well shit.
It seems a lot of Palestinians didn’t consider the
There was a failed attempt to depose them. And a blockade. Because of course… the Hamas government had as it’s stated goal to destroy Israel.
And yeah Hamas wasn’t effective at governing. Fascists never are never very good at that. But the UN filled in the gaps for them. Kept things going more or less.
But just because Gaza was a failed state doesn’t mean it wasn’t a state. And yeah it wasn’t recognized by anyone because no one in their right mind would recognize the Hamas psychos as a legitimate government.
Gaza was briefly the only free part of Palestine. Until Hamas fucked it all up.
A ceasefire in exchange for what?
Giving up the only leverage they have over Israel?
Holding civilians hostage is a war crime. So do you support war crimes?
Enforcing an Apartheid State is a international crime against humanity too, do you support Apartheid?
Amnesty International Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace
Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel) and Summery by the International Court of Justice
AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox on Crime of Genocide
Mama always said, two wrong ain’t make a right. My father said that complex geopolitical games are not won with bias, but with detached foresight.
It’s impossible to avoid bias. I’m much more concerned with credibility from multiple independent sources to get to a comprehensive history of the conflict and a way to resolution.
It’s impossible to avoid bias completely. It’s very much possible to recognize your bias and train yourself to have emotional detachment from a given subject. Ask a Buddhist monk, or a seasoned intelligence analyst.
Philosophical ramble below, you can stop reading here if you’re not in the mood.
Most people unfortunately never get to the stage of realizing they can detach themselves from emotional bias, so they read and believe whatever they have already read and believe and want to be true.
Side note: it’s much easier when you’re on the spectrum, or learned as a child to shut your emotions off (I’m not sure this can be learned in adulthood). It seems like many victims of childhood abuse take it in the other direction - emotional overreaction.
Over the last five months we’ve witnessed more than 30,600 Palestinians killed, more than 12,300 children and 6,300 women killed by Israel. With more than 70,000 injured. 99 Journalists killed too.
We’ve seen over 360,000 homes destroyed. Nearly 400 schools, 267 Places of Worship, over 130 water wells bombed and destroyed. 23 out of 35 Hospitals don’t function anymore since they’ve gotten shelled. With the other 12 only partially functioning. Over 85% of everyone in Gaza has been displaced.
Millions are at extreme risk of starvation and disease brought by a deliberate famine and water crisis.
What are we talking about here?
Emotional detachment of things one has no personal involvement in, in order to see the situation as clearly as possible. If you are living in Gaza or have family or a good friend there then yes it’s much harder and maybe nearly impossible. I can also understand the need for emotional attachment to feel purpose by campaigning against something, but again, attachment is the enemy of objectivity.
What do you mean, I listed objective facts about what has happened in Gaza in the last five months. I think awareness is important, there is a lot of misinformation. And I am involved, my taxes fund and defend this.
The US has been supplying Israel with these weapons, knowing exactly what they are being used for, and defending Israel on the international stage by vetoing UN ceasefire resolutions repeatedly.
I don’t get what you’re advocating for. Do you support or oppose ethnic cleansing?
U.S. Aid to Israel in Four Charts
Full Monday Planned at UN with Focus on US Vetoes of Ceasefire, UNRWA 4th ceasefire veto
How the U.S. Can Rein In Israel
So you want Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to be considered Israeli citizens?
There’s a term for making people from an occupied territory into citizens of the country that’s doing the occupation. The term is annexation.
So do you want Israel to annex the West Bank and Gaza?
The “Apartheid State” thing is just a slogan for children that don’t understand how anything works in the world.
Immediately, I would prefer an actual permanent ceasefire and an end to the decade long permanent occupation. I would prefer the apartheid state to be dismantled and a new state with equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians to take its place. For the millions of Palestinians refugees to have the Right of Return.
You mean the annexation of at least 60% of the West Bank since 1967 with Palestinians subject to Military Law, weaponized Setter Violence, denied civil rights, denied rights to movement, water, and property?
Due to the de facto annexation of the West Bank, a Two-State Solution is no longer a practical solution. The West Bank has been divided into bantustans and require an expulsion of hundreds of thousands of settlers. It’s been a one-state reality because of the Settlements built by Israel on the West Bank. Which is why a single Binational State that would ensure equal rights for all Palestinians and Israelis is the most viable resolution.
You’re denying the investigative journalists by multiple major Human Rights Organizations, including B’TSelem (a Jewish Israeli Human Rights Org operating within Israel), detailing exactly how Israel is guilty of the Crime of Apartheid by the definitions laid out by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (Apartheid Convention) and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (Rome Statute). You could read the first few pages of any of those reports I linked, calling them childish is laughable.
Palestinians denied civil rights including Military Court
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel including Child abuse
Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control
Exploitation of Palestinian Labor: Haaretz, MEE, 972, CMEC
But do you condemn Hamas?®
Most people don’t support war crimes.
But, at the moment, it’s war crimes vs. bigger war crimes. The question is, is the perpetrator of war crimes willing to stop war crimes when it’s the only conceivable leverage to stop bigger war crimes? Big war crimes likely doesn’t give a fuuuuuck about the little war crimes though - they literally killed the hostages in several situations. They are just pitching a tent because it’s an excuse for them to do even bigger war crimes.
See condemning Hamas is a joke to you. I see people cosplaying as Hamas as Palestine protests. Cosplaying as genocidal maniacs.
Condemning Hamas would have been the smart move for the Palestinian movement. But it’s too dominated by hatred to make smart moves. Which is why it’s only the young and naive that support it.
I can’t take you seriously.
First, Israel has committed war crimes against Palestinians for decades. When nobody plays by the rules there is no point in quoting the rules.
Very few people condone killing civilians or taking hostages. Most people support the liberation of the Palestinian people and peace.
Only the naive think that the situation is anywhere near as cut and dry as you seem to imply it is. And only the gullible think any fraction of the population worth mentioning are cosplaying as or celebrating the actions of Hamas.
This isn’t being called out, people just looking the other way.
A lot of people will say Netanyahu is a horrible leader. And in all likelihood he’ll be gone in the next election. Nobody is willing to call out Hamas, or any Palestinian leadership. So Palestinians will always be stuck with bad leaders. It’s why this conflict was inevitable. Hamas would never be removed by Palestinians, they’d be stuck with them forever if it weren’t for this current action. Too much support from naive people.
Naive and gullible, like I said. Or, alternatively, just a disgusting person willfully attempting to spread disinformation.
About that: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinians-arrested-under-israeli-occupation-childhood-disrupted-2023-12-30/
War crimes literally aren’t real.
Saying something is a “war crime” essentially means “and they got away with it.” Just look at what’s happening in Ukraine.
A war crime is literally a crime that happens during a war.
Crime occurs in normal day to day life too. Both of these things are terrible.
What’s important is those who do the crimes (whether in war or otherwise) face justice. Generally Israel prosecutes soldiers that commit crimes. I find it doubtful Palestinians will prosecute Yahya Sinwar for his war crimes.
kidnapping is a crime. Gaza isn’t a state. it doesn’t have a military. this isn’t a war.
Israel ended it’s occupation of Gaza a long time ago. You’re probably too young to have been following the news back then. Israel removed all it’s settlements from Gaza and withdrew it’s military. There was a lot of hope for the future of Gaza. It’s on the sea and could trade. There’s nice beaches there, so who knows, there could even be a tourist industry there.
A lot of optimism back then. This was the path to peace. Once the economy improves in Gaza, and there’s peace and prosperity there, the world could pressure Israel to do the same with the West Bank.
Then a plurality of Palestinians voted for Hamas. Hamas took power. Well shit.
It seems a lot of Palestinians didn’t consider the
There was a failed attempt to depose them. And a blockade. Because of course… the Hamas government had as it’s stated goal to destroy Israel.
And yeah Hamas wasn’t effective at governing. Fascists never are never very good at that. But the UN filled in the gaps for them. Kept things going more or less.
But just because Gaza was a failed state doesn’t mean it wasn’t a state. And yeah it wasn’t recognized by anyone because no one in their right mind would recognize the Hamas psychos as a legitimate government.
Gaza was briefly the only free part of Palestine. Until Hamas fucked it all up.
>Gaza was briefly the only free part of Palestine. Until Hamas fucked it all up.
Israel can free Palestine right now. get rid of the walls and lift the blockade. it is Israel that keeps Palestine from being free.
You seriously think the walls will be removed after October 7?
>Fascists never are never very good at that
Mussolini made the trains run on time. you’ll forgive me if I don’t believe you have a good historical analysis or knowledge.
You repeating this old fascist propaganda just proved my point. That’s been debunked a long time ago, yet you’re still repeating it.
Let them eat leverage hey?