The department is working with the Secret Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to investigate the incident, the spokesperson added.
Seems pretty self-explanatory. What is there to investigate?
I will never understand this kind of “protest,” because it presumes that you have value to the people you are protesting. Israel certainly doesn’t give a fuck about a US citizens’ opinions, and the US government doesn’t know who you are. You are killing yourself to make a point to people who literally don’t care if you live or die, and any meaningful activism you could have done as an able-bodied person is lost forever.
People might remember that this happened, but it will be like a half-remembered dream when the next event oozes out of the ragebait news machine.
Based on what I leaned from the article about his final message, the protest wasn’t for Israel’s sake, it was to draw those living under the rule of a government’s attention (whether Israel’s, the U.S.'s, or wherever else’s) to the situation. To point out that we are indeed living through a genocide perpetuated by our own government. Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn’t be talking about it if he hadn’t.
And maybe nothing will ultimately come of it, maybe it was a desperate act against his own powerlessness to stop it.
I would argue self immolation is a pretty powerful statement though, you weigh everything you are, everything you could be; against the hope that a message takes off somewhere.
You can absolutely criticize his conviction. It’s exactly this level of conviction that precipitated this tragic conflict in the first place. Hamas is convinced killing Israelis is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. Israel is convinced killing Palestinians is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. This guy was convinced killing himself is the answer. He did something about it. Cheering on any of these murderous, extremist asshats for having the courage of their convictions is woefully misguided.
There’s no murder here, unless you’re accusing himself of murdering himself, which is a whole can of worms. The other examples are consistent but his is decidedly different.
Where do you think it falls short in the definition of genocide: “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”?
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war, and far higher numbers. I know the wars are very different but larger numbers have also died in the current Ukraine war.
If they’re trying to eliminate them as a people they need to pick up the pace. Also, my family was displaced from their land in the 1900s and had to seek asylum in the US. Nobody called it a genocide but also everyone was mostly white.
The criteria for genocide is not “kill a percentage of a population larger than the percentage that died in the US Civil War”. There’s no minimum requirement for per-capita death. It’s about intent and action. They are trying to kill or displace everyone in Gaza. How good they are at it isn’t relevant, it is still genocide.
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war
The American Civil War ran from Apr 1861 – 9 Apr 1865. Four years
The Gaza genocide hasn’t even been going for 6 months and it’s already racked up 3/4 of the deaths of the entire US Civil War. If it runs for 4 years at the present rate it will kill 12% of the population and half of those are children.
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So, point for point, the only one Israel hasn’t done in Gaza is “e”. But to be clear, you don’t have to hit all 5 to be a genocide, just one is enough. Russia is hitting all 5 in Ukraine.
Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn’t be talking about it if he hadn’t.
And that’s just it. We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say. And for the government supporting a regime that’s commiting genocide, that is already talked about ad nauseum online. There’s already pro-Palestine protests, there’s groups joining the “Uncommitted” movement—like, his act of self-immolation will be lost among every other act of protest going on.
Was it extreme? Yes. Was it effective? I don’t think so.
We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say.
You are. Because that’s the conversation you wanted to start rather than address his statements. The President of the United States almost certainly read about this event. It’s being covered in newspapers throughout the country. It’s only people like you who is saying it’s meaningless and no one cares.
I honestly doubt this is going to start a revolution. Bouazizi’s act catalyzed public anger against their autocracy, but people in the US live in relative comfort. People aren’t angry enough in a large enough group to have that level of simmering outrage, mainly because it isn’t happening to them.
And that is precisely why all of this corruption and all of this inflation and everything gets by uncontested.
Because, people still live in some sort of complacency. As long as not everything imaginable is taken from them, then the average American goes “okay, still good!”. They’ll just bitch and gripe on social media while having to work around their bullshit and sacrifice tiny crumbs of comfort, but not all of their comfort.
Seems pretty self-explanatory. What is there to investigate?
I will never understand this kind of “protest,” because it presumes that you have value to the people you are protesting. Israel certainly doesn’t give a fuck about a US citizens’ opinions, and the US government doesn’t know who you are. You are killing yourself to make a point to people who literally don’t care if you live or die, and any meaningful activism you could have done as an able-bodied person is lost forever.
People might remember that this happened, but it will be like a half-remembered dream when the next event oozes out of the ragebait news machine.
Based on what I leaned from the article about his final message, the protest wasn’t for Israel’s sake, it was to draw those living under the rule of a government’s attention (whether Israel’s, the U.S.'s, or wherever else’s) to the situation. To point out that we are indeed living through a genocide perpetuated by our own government. Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn’t be talking about it if he hadn’t.
And maybe nothing will ultimately come of it, maybe it was a desperate act against his own powerlessness to stop it.
I would argue self immolation is a pretty powerful statement though, you weigh everything you are, everything you could be; against the hope that a message takes off somewhere.
Amen. This man did something. While we sit on our asses on Lemmy and complain. You can criticize his methods, but not his conviction.
You can absolutely criticize his conviction. It’s exactly this level of conviction that precipitated this tragic conflict in the first place. Hamas is convinced killing Israelis is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. Israel is convinced killing Palestinians is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. This guy was convinced killing himself is the answer. He did something about it. Cheering on any of these murderous, extremist asshats for having the courage of their convictions is woefully misguided.
There’s no murder here, unless you’re accusing himself of murdering himself, which is a whole can of worms. The other examples are consistent but his is decidedly different.
Albert Einstein
More people have died in so many other wars, but this is a genocide? I keep reading it but I don’t see it. Land displacement is not genocide.
Where do you think it falls short in the definition of genocide: “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”?
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war, and far higher numbers. I know the wars are very different but larger numbers have also died in the current Ukraine war.
If they’re trying to eliminate them as a people they need to pick up the pace. Also, my family was displaced from their land in the 1900s and had to seek asylum in the US. Nobody called it a genocide but also everyone was mostly white.
The criteria for genocide is not “kill a percentage of a population larger than the percentage that died in the US Civil War”. There’s no minimum requirement for per-capita death. It’s about intent and action. They are trying to kill or displace everyone in Gaza. How good they are at it isn’t relevant, it is still genocide.
@doingless
The American Civil War ran from Apr 1861 – 9 Apr 1865. Four years
The Gaza genocide hasn’t even been going for 6 months and it’s already racked up 3/4 of the deaths of the entire US Civil War. If it runs for 4 years at the present rate it will kill 12% of the population and half of those are children.
The UN Convention on Genocide defines it like this:
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
"a) Killing members of the group;
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So, point for point, the only one Israel hasn’t done in Gaza is “e”. But to be clear, you don’t have to hit all 5 to be a genocide, just one is enough. Russia is hitting all 5 in Ukraine.
And that’s just it. We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say. And for the government supporting a regime that’s commiting genocide, that is already talked about ad nauseum online. There’s already pro-Palestine protests, there’s groups joining the “Uncommitted” movement—like, his act of self-immolation will be lost among every other act of protest going on.
Was it extreme? Yes. Was it effective? I don’t think so.
You are. Because that’s the conversation you wanted to start rather than address his statements. The President of the United States almost certainly read about this event. It’s being covered in newspapers throughout the country. It’s only people like you who is saying it’s meaningless and no one cares.
I am almost certain nobody will be talking about this next week.
I do not apologize for accepting cold reality.
Never thought I’d see someone tone policing self immolation.
deleted by creator
I honestly doubt this is going to start a revolution. Bouazizi’s act catalyzed public anger against their autocracy, but people in the US live in relative comfort. People aren’t angry enough in a large enough group to have that level of simmering outrage, mainly because it isn’t happening to them.
And that is precisely why all of this corruption and all of this inflation and everything gets by uncontested.
Because, people still live in some sort of complacency. As long as not everything imaginable is taken from them, then the average American goes “okay, still good!”. They’ll just bitch and gripe on social media while having to work around their bullshit and sacrifice tiny crumbs of comfort, but not all of their comfort.