About a week ago, I finally made the decision to flash GrapheneOS on my Pixel 6. I’ve been thinking about moving to GrapheneOS for months but was afraid to do so because of missing functionalities or app incompatibility that would result in my Pixel 6 becoming unusable. Even though I could just re-flash stock Android should I encounter those issues, I didn’t want to bother.
However, last week, I decided to set aside my fears and made the move to GrapheneOS. Whatever fears or concerns I had about missing functionalities or app incompatibilities were completely unfounded. Flashing of GrapheneOS was really easy, thanks to the instructions they provided on their website. The sandboxed Google Play environment still allowed me to download the key apps I needed, whether it be the mobile game that I’m currently playing or a smart home app (e.g. Ring) or a banking app (e.g. Chase). They all worked as expected, though my banking apps required me to turn on Exploit Protection Compatibility Mode, something that was explained to me in one of the Graphene Discussion Boards. Android Auto was another app that I needed for driving, and thanks to the latest update that was made by the GrapheneOS makers, I had no issues in setting up Android Auto to work with my car. That was a huge relief for me!
That being said, there is one thing that is not working, but it’s not that important of a feature for me, and that is NFC. Prior to making the move, I did not use NFC that much for payments, although my car app did have a Remote Key function that relied on NFC. As far as I can tell, it looks like NFC is not usable in GrapheneOS. There’s probably a good security and/or privacy reason for this, but I do wish something could be implemented for it, as it can be quite convenient. Again, it’s not that important of a feature for me to have right now…more of a “nice to have” feature…but I wonder if the GrapheneOS developers are looking into this.
Anyways, it’s only been a week since I made the move. I’m sure more use cases will come up the more I use GrapheneOS, and instead of fear, I find myself excited at testing out more apps and functionalities on the OS. Traveling is one scenario I have not yet tried, but that’s because I’m not leaving town to go anywhere. That’s one set of scenarios that I look forward to trying out.
If anyone has any other advices or information they have about their experience with GrapheneOS, I would welcome it. And for those who are still undecided about moving to GrapheneOS, I hope this post relieves some of your anxieties or worries about making the transition.
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NFC for security related things relies on certificates that belong to Google. GrapheneOS / LineageOS etc could make their own and put forward to the banks/credit card companies/car companies etc but the likelihood that they’d get them signed and approved is basically nil.
Pretty much the same core issue that means you can’t run streaming services at 4K outside mainstream devices like Chromecast or Nvidia Shield etc. You can’t make it work on a HTPC or a cheap Android TV stick from AliExpress, because it lacks the certificates to authenticate to Netflix etc. As well as HDCP and other DRM which is needed.
Graphene is amazing! Switched from Calyx last week and couldn’t be happier. Scopes are the best thing ever. App “needs” to read contacts? Yeah, you can read the one fake contact that the scope allows you to.
Yeah, the Scopes feature is really nice! I often wonder why some apps require reading every single contact or need access to every folder/directory in your phone. In my use case, there are a few apps that require access to storage or contacts, but thanks to Scopes, I can limit it to just a specific folder or a small group of contacts. Everything else is off limits, and I like that.
Can you use the seedvault backup to restore on graphene? I run calyx and am happy but curious about graphene.
yes but I think they are planning on changing the backup method
Regarding seedvault, I tried to do a backup of my phone, once I got it setup, but it seems like backup function is not working very well. I tried external USB thumb drive and Internal Storage, but neither of those options resulted in a successful backup. I did some search on the GrapheneOS Discussion Board (thread), and it seems like the Seedvault version that is currently part of the build is out-of-date. They may push a newer version in the next update.
I swapped to it at the start of the year. I’ve been really enjoying it so far. I’m down to a single app which requires Google Play Services installed. As it’s only one app I’ve created a second profile specifically for it and only have Google services installed in that one. I’ve disallowed it running in the background too, so my phone is never running the services outside the brief times I need to use the app.
Losing contactless payments was a minor inconvenience, but I picked up one of the cases which can fit a couple of cards inside as an alternative.
Yeah I honestly don’t understand why people cling to the contactless payment as this thing they can’t possibly fathom losing. It’s moderately more convenient, sure, but you’re still pulling a thing out of your pocket and putting it up to the machine. It doesn’t seem like that big of a loss to me for all the benefits of being on graphene or lineage.
Personally my phone is my backup wallet though contactless payments. I may forget to bring my wallet with me, but never my phone .
I was 2500 miles from home and lost my wallet. I don’t use Google pay often at all, but it was a life saver that day. Even if I don’t use it, it’s nice to have a an option
I’ve been really considering switching to grapheneOs, But I’m a therapist and we have to use Google voice for our office numbers. Does Google voice still ring through if it’s in a sandboxed environment?
Yes, it works for me
It does, you have nothing to worry about.
My only problem with GrapheneOS is when I record the screen on Vanadium browser it doesn’t capture the audio
I’d like to see some features as:
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Block Screenshot whole system
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True Black Mode to make the most of the OLED screen
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Extreme Power Saving
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Block recharging when it reaches 80% to preserve battery health
- Although not OOTB, I can recommend SaverTuner for that.
I don’t know if is a good option because I need to use adb to write some settings this could break the security model of the system but thanks for your recommendation
- That’s already implemented in Firmware/Android: https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/379
my Pixel 6 doesn’t stop charge when reaches 80% and there is not an option to enable this feature
Nobody said it would.
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NFC works, you just cannot use it for Google Pay.
Why would you use Google Pay if you care about privacy? It’s not like credit cards have been decommissioned.
Oh, I don’t use Google Pay with NFC. Prior to flashing GOS on my Pixel 6, the only time I used NFC was to unlock my car when I didn’t have the physical key fob with me. That was done through my car manufacturer’s mobile app (BMW). However, when I went to set up the digital key after flashing GOS, the app told me that it couldn’t set up the digital key, because I was using an unsupported version of Android.
Sorry, I replied to you but was reading another comment.
The fault is not of GrapheneOS, but of reliance on Google Play Services
That’s alright!
Yeah, I think there’s another comment on this post that mentioned the same thing.
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Paid $250 for a refurbished Pixel 7 on Amazon. Other than coming in a generic box and having a generic charging brick and cable, from the phone itself you’d never know it was a refurb.
Purchase an A series model from last year. Run Graphene for 3 years. Then switch to Calyx for the next 2 years, assuming your battery lasts (or you fix it with an iFixit).
You don’t even need to switch after the initial support period ends, in my experience they’ve kept supporting older pixels for longer than they promised
That’s great then
Copy from another comment I made about “extended support”, I think it means they are still supporting it but they might stop at any point. From their actual doc:
The following devices are end-of-life, no longer receive firmware or most driver security updates and receive extended support from GrapheneOS as part of the main releases with all GrapheneOS changes including all of the latest Android Open Source Project changes
I’ve never spent less for what I’ve gotten than with pixels. Paid $350 for a pixel 4a that lasted me 3.5 years and I paid less than 400 for a 7a. Just get last year’s model. To be clear the hardware still worked after 3.5 years but I decided to not continue after the security updates stopped
Brand new the 6a is just over $400. That seems pretty reasonable to me for a modern smartphone.
You could probably get a used one for less.
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If you watch for a sale you can get a brand new one for less than 400. They seem to last well, but I’ve never had any phone last 5 years.
DivestOS is probably the best option for you then.
Their resell value is ass, but that’s good for consumers. My brother bought a Pixel 5 for $165 recently off of swappa.com
Just get an older Pixel. I got a 4a 5g that I bought a couple years ago. Still works fine and goes for less than 200 EUR these days.
Just be aware of the supported devices for GrapheneOS, as the older Pixels may not receive updates.
I have no problem using NFC with GrapheneOS on a Pixel 4A.
What’s your use case for NFC on your Pixel 4A?
I just used it to try some NFC-proof wallets, scanning my bank card with and without the wallet. I don’t use it everyday.
Wait what?
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I’ve been using it pretty routinely on lineage.
I think NFC is fine, it’s the proprietary parts of Google Pay that GrapheneOS can’t do
I’m in a similar place as the OP.
One question I have is about Vanadium. This is chrome based, right? Is it really the best/most secure browser? Aren’t the better secured flavors of Firefox better (LibreWolf, Fennic, etc.)?
The GrapheneOS team has written extensively on why they advise against the use of Firefox in their Usage Guide.
You beat me to it! I was gonna mention the same thing. However, I don’t think it may be that big of a deal if you use Firefox or some flavor of it. The one term I often hear about GrapheneOS and other AOSPs like it is “threat model”, and depending on that model, you may not necessarily be impacted if you decide to use something other than the stock browser.
That’s not to say the GrapheneOS developers are wrong in their Usage Guide. I’m sure they looked into this extensively, hence the usage guide.
I personally use both Mull and Vanadium depending on what I’m doing.
I use Mull with NoScript to just browse. If I need JS or need to log in (very very rare), I use Vanadium. This is the compromise I make.
I just wrote a longer comment but it seemed to disappear. I did not find that writeup very easy to understand nor convincing because the underlying message is that Firefox is bullshit?
It was an ongoing debate on reddit that came up a couple times. I personally use both Mull and Vanadium. I just use noScript with Mull more for usability than anything else.
I’m not technically knowledgable enough to weigh in on the validity of the argument, I just posted it for those who were wondering why.
Here is a reddit discussion via libreddit where you can read a more at length discussion on it.
And another one.
So… Firefox is a scam and Google’s browser isn’t? I didn’t really understand that writeup
If you have 1 problem (chrome) and you add another problem (Firefox ) how many problems do you have?
And I can’t get any reference to anyone calling Firefox a scam?
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I don’t really feel like they explained much in terms of why just a lot of detail around what they believe. The tldr seems to be that Firefox isn’t truly secure but Google’s work is.
All the talk about Tor also seemed to go back and forth between “this is the best and that’s why we use that approach” and “it’s not very good but will be eventually”.
Nothing they wrote was clear to me honestly. I do find it hard to believe that Firefox is inherently insecure and that the extensions many rely on for privacy reasons are all bullshit security theatre…
Sandboxing is crap on Firefox (specially on android) . Google is really fucking good at security since they are well a huge multinational behemot. They know security. Security =/ privacy. When you are using android you are using Chrome webview no matter what browser you are using. So just piling on stuff instead of replacing things won’t be a good security practice.
Also the Google parts are optional , you don’t need Googles stuff to use chromium. Just like vanadium does.
Regarding webviews – am I right in thinking that webviews are simply a frame within another app that acts as a web browser? I’ve been under the impression that since I disabled chrome on my android phone and that the upper right menu offers to open in FF, those are using FF. I guess I’m wrong?
Well you say the Google parts of chromium are optional, but that’s more just tracking and sign in stuff. Google is the major player in the chromium codebase, no? They have some fantastic engineers but it still sort of has the stink of Google on it, if nothing else due to the web standards supported which is steered by Google business decisions. That’s mainly why I don’t want to use it. I want other browsers to exist. That and mobile ff extensions are fantastic from a user perspective
I’m no expert but webview is used anytime remote content is loaded I believe. Certainly you can open links in FF but webview is always there , and not so obvious things always load that way. Webview is baked inte the OS itself. No matter how much you degoogle. Bromite had another webview based on chrome but that’s all the alternative that exist as far as I know.
Chromium is still Foss. Google might have a stink and definitely tries to influence on the Foss part. But when it comes to vanadium I have no question about that everything is under a magnifying glass.
As I wrote elsewhere , all projects have their place and I do use FF, just not on android. I would be really happy if FF on mobile would be able to compete but I don’t see that happening until we have full Linux phones (that actually does everything android does)
https://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-android-system-webview-3267814/
I appreciate your response. However, upon reading that article, it seems the truth is somewhere between our two understandings. WebView is no longer baked into the OS:
Around the same time, Google also decoupled WebView from the rest of the operating system and packaged it as a system app instead. This allows the component to be updated independently of major Android updates or security patches.
What I said about an app displaying content using Firefox is also true in some cases. You can see in this screenshot of the article that Firefox is being used in the manner I described (and the selected text describes):
I have often noticed that “powered by Firefox” text, so I guess that’s where my assumption came from.
I don’t doubt at all that certain apps, specifically Google built ones, still require/use the google WebView, but that’s not every app. Boost for Lemmy for example, in my screenshot, uses the custom tab feature which can use Firefox. I am tempted to disable the Google WebView app just to see what happens… I am guessing Google-built apps like Gmail will crash. I wish “custom tabs” were adapted in a manner that Firefox could always be used, but I doubt Google would make that a thing.
At least they do have the custom tab feature, something apple would never do, maybe not even if the friggin EU forced them to. They seem to be weaseling out of some other EU regs, anyhow.
But back to GrapheneOS. Given that Google apps are sandboxed and almost discouraged in that OS, I’m still not sure I understand the specific guidance against Firefox.
Edit: yeah disabling the WebView app causes Gmail to crash horribly and even K9 mail, made by Mozilla, responds the same way. :'(
It depends. I use GrapheneOS to avoid Google as much as possible, not to be the most secure thing in the world. I use Firefox with addons for a much less annoying browsing experience.
If you are using Firefox on android you are using Firefox AND Chrome. Webview is chrome whatever browser you use. So using Firefox double the attack surface and weakens security since Firefox is not properly sandboxed.
Except, of course, that FireFox doesn’t use webview.
If you open a link in an app you are using the webview , gecko is not a webview. As Firefox says: “Google does not allow a third party to implement the System WebView and the GeckoView API is not compatible with the WebView API in a very meaningful way unfortunately, so this is not possible.”
Ah, I thought you were implying that FireFox itself depends on Chrome for rendering.
I feel like I’m not exposed to vebview particularly often when using my phone though, maybe in part because I dislike it and tend to actively avoid it in my workflow.
Sure. That’s fine. My point was that your goals matter to determine if something is good or not. My goals involve no ads, dark reader, and script blocking for better user experience.
Sorry answered on yours instead of op thread
The GrapheneOS devs largely prefer their chromium based browser. I however decided for me that a combination of the URLCheck and Mull apps fits my needs best.
Could you kindly explain why it meets your needs best?
Ok, I try. So URLcheck is just nice to review what you have clicked and maybe remove some tracking.
I prefer Mull because I have the impression I get better privacy. First, there is Adblock and other extensions which ( I think) I can’t use in Vanadium. And second, I use a feature to delete just any history/ cookie etc. on app close. I think this option is also not available.
Аnd all your privacy ends when you insert a SIM card into your phone. Not sarcasm, but kind of…
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The one thing I’ve had issues with has been sending files to other devices over Bluetooth, but receiving hasn’t been a problem. Has anyone else had this issue & been able to fix it?
You had me almost convinced to try this on mine up until the NFC. I use contactless payments on mine at 90% of the places I shop, so that is a deal breaker for me.
Can you not just get one of those wallet-cases and put your contactless card in the same place as your phone?
I already have a really nice wallet and phone case. Things are hard enough as it is to fit into my pockets. I personally have no problems with my Pixel 6 and I really don’t want to create them without a really good reason.
Having the digital wallet has saved me multiple times in the past with fraudulent payments and lost/damaged cards. When you are waiting for your new card in the mail, the digital payment system that is linked with your bank/CC is still able to be used in the meantime. That means I can go get groceries and gas. I have had it take over a week to get a new card. If I am traveling/out of town, then it is even a bigger mess.
I understand that Google is evil, but there are some things that I am ok with them tracking, such as my location with Google Maps Timeline. As long as I can mostly block out the advertising on my phone with AdGuard, that will just have to be enough at this time.
Those sound like some very specific edge cases. Of course it’s fine for you to do whatever you want, it’s all a trade-off of what you lose vs what you gain. “Threat model” and all that.
I’ve been using GrapheneOS for a couple years now, both with and without the Google compatability apps. I vastly prefer without, but I’m lucky in that my credit union’s app will function without Google.
👍
