Most women (and men) believe the things their parents teach them.
The thing with conservatives is they want to 1) prevent any other information flowing to these women, religious indoctrination only 2) get these women pregnant young so that they don’t have a chance to gain independence
So yeah in those cases you have grown women who believe these things. The Duggars are an example of the ‘quiver full’ movement in action. Letting their son abuse their daughters young so that they get used to it and defend it as normal.
My parents used to fearmonger the everliving shit about LGBTQ+ and abortion, and as a small kid I ate that shit up. But then at some point, my brain probably developed some modicum of critical thinking and thought, wait a minute, why in the world does it matter to me what people do with their own lives, if it doesn’t even affect me or anyone else for that matter? Why are my parents, along with every single bigot, incorrectly think that they are entitled to weigh in on someone else’s life decisions?
Every single argument from them boils down to “because religion”, but as someone who was raised Catholic (agnostic now), one of the things that they taught me was quite literally to “love thy neighbour” and to not shit on people only because of their beliefs. So why are the very same people who taught me that now doing the opposite of what they preach, trying (and fortunately failing) to shit on other people just because they don’t have the same beliefs? “My religion says it’s not OK,” well they don’t believe in the same things you do and could not give less of a shit about what you believe, so why not just leave them alone and let them live their life? It was around that point that I realised they were just hypocrites, and absolutely nothing more.
I grew up extremely conservative christian (homeschooled, no tv, women don’t work outside the house) and was taught that anything other than married man and women was evil.
The thing is we were also taught critical thinking and logic albeit it was to compare “new teachings” against the bible. My parents always said since the bible is true [sic] it would stand up to any scrutiny. They thankfully never learned the lesson most christian leaders have that Christianity needs to be mandated for it to be effective.
Obviously the bible did not hold up to logic and I’m now a proud atheist and in the process of healing.
Man, that’s worse than what I experienced growing up. Out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with atheism? Personally, I’m agnostic (I think that’s the right term) because I see no compelling evidence or argument for either side, and I am of the opinion that a human’s finite brain could never even come close to figuring out the answer. And no, the Bible isn’t evidence, not one that’s even close to being the slightest bit rigorous at least. To me, it’s as much evidence for Christianity as the Harry Potter books are for wizardry.
That’s not entirely true, most definitions of Agnosticism frame it as a different position from Atheism.
Plus, you don’t have to prove something to believe it, if you’re convinced that there is no god you can define yourself an Atheist, that’s it. Agnostics are just “on the fence” and have no horse in the race.
the view or belief that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable.
It is not related to actual knowledge. No matter the claims one can make, no one can be 100% sure whether a god exists or not. It’s called “faith” because people choose to believe despite the lack of irrefutable evidence.
Belief, on the other hand, is definitely a spectrum and you can be convinced or skeptical of affirmations from both sides. There’s also apatheists that simply don’t care whether it exists or not, or Ignostics that question the question itself. There’s plenty of people “on the fence”. The definition of Nontheism for example encompasses all those three, but not Atheism.
Agnostic Atheism is a position that’s very close to Atheism, but not all Agnostics are Agnostic Atheists.
The journey went: disappointment with God, angry at God, apathetic, agnostic, then atheist.
I considered myself agnostic for a long time but it always felt a bit like a compromise for me, like it’s more palatable to think “Oh, I just don’t know one way or another” over seeing god as a stopgap for holes in knowledge.
Rather than the approach of attributing less and less to the divine over time, I decided to attribute nothing and go from there.
Saying that one can’t disprove god’s existence feels the same to me as saying a watermelon is blue inside until it’s observed.
Regarding your last point, we only know that the flesh of a watermelon is indeed red because we’ve seen it before. If, say, an alien would suddenly come to Earth and be presented with a watermelon, they would not know what colour it is without cracking it open or otherwise probing it with various tools (granted of course that they perceive colour like we do)
Attributing nothing to the divine is also the way I go about it. We have scientific explanations for most phenomenon we see on a daily basis, and for those we do not, I do think we will find scientific explanations for them one day. None of the mysteries of the universe that would later be answered have been caused by the supernatural, so I have no reason to think it will be different.
However, I do think that a lack of observable trace of a “divine being” is not necessarily an evidence of nonexistence. To me, my agnosticism is not a form of compromise, but a recognition of the limitations of humans, as well as an acknowledgement relative inconsequence the question of whether a divine being exists or not is to the universe and to my own life. If nothing in my life or in the known universe can be attributed to the divine, why does it matter whether it exists or not? If an extraterrestrial exists in some distant galaxy, surely it would not matter to them whether I exist or not. That’s the way I think of the idea of divine beings.
Anyways, it’s kind of great to be able to ramble about this on the internet, most of the people I know are religious and unfortunately would not be very tolerant of this type of viewpoint.
Check again, conservatives are no longer fiscally conservative and have not been for several decades. That facade has entirely fallen away to reveal the real:
fundamentalist christians
racists
filthy rich people who want tax cuts for the rich (do not confuse this with being fiscally conservative)
Those two sentences are unrelated since the GOP is pretty explicitly against freedom of speech given all their book banning and don’t say gay bills and the like. Unless you’re defining freedom of speech their absolutely brain dead way they use it of ‘We’re free to openly be as big of a piece of shit as we like with no consequences. If you use your freedom of speech to call us out, or use your freedom of association to kick us off your property you’re oppressing us’ in which case yeah, that’s still a bad policy, naming a bad policy after a good one to trick people doesn’t make it a good policy
Freedom of speech means you can’t be arrested for what you say. Any policies that ban certain types of speech are very clearly unconstitutional.
We’re free to openly be as big of a piece of shit as we like with no consequences. If you use your freedom of speech to call us out, or use your freedom of association to kick us off your property you’re oppressing us
Using freedom of speech to defend your opinion is literally saying “my opinion is valid because it’s not illegal”.
That is exactly what fiscally conservative means. That’s 100% what I expect when a politician has conservative economic views. Conservatives value keeping the status quo, and the status quo is capitalism, with the rich getting richer.
yeah, but people not in the know think it just means ‘prudent government spending’. What it actually means is funnel as much money from the government/taxpayer to the existing rich as possible. I think we are saying the same thing, cheers
That has nothing to do with conservatism. Just because some people who are conservative said that, doesn’t mean that that’s a part of it. Please attack specific ideas, not groups of people.
That’s been Catholicism’s playbook since day one. There’s a reason they’re so against any kind of sex that doesn’t lead to procreation.
Course, it also used to be rooted in the fact that medicine was trash for a long time, and a lot of kids died, so you’d want to have as many as you could to give some a shot at living a full life. But that’s not the case anymore, so yeah, the only reasons to have as many kids as possible is as you say, to outnumber the sane people, and to keep the working class populated, so we inch closer and closer to Idiocracy becoming reality every day.
I don’t know why. I’m about as pale as you can get, and it is by far the WEAKEST of skin colors. We literally cannot go out in the sun without protection.
Sure, everyone should wear sunscreen, but I can get burnt walking out to the mailbox!
Ah. Sounds like you have fine genes my friend. The best genes.
Have you considered endless breeding?
Not only is it a lot of fun, but you can pass on those great genes you got there.
For real though, I have a red headed daughter and one that should have been a redhead. She got everything but the hair. The freckles, the pale blue eyes. A beam of light comes through the window and she starts smoking. Someone turns on a 100W lightbulb and she blisters. I get what you’re saying.
Accidentally deleted but yeah I’ve noticed an influx of conservative men matching with me despite clear indications that I’m liberal. Unfortunately I do know these sorts of women exist, but maybe conservative men should seek them out instead of someone clearly liberal who doesn’t want to make their body a baby factory.
Alternately, because she’s attractive and some guys are idiots. For some guys “looks” overrides everything else.
It’s unreal how many guy will date a flat out manipulative, immature, mean asshole because she’s “hot”. Compared to that a decent human being is a catch, regardless of if they’re fundamentally incompatible.
Because these guys don’t want the full trade off of gender roles the conservatives promote. Many conservative women expect dating with the intent of marriage and at some point having the husband be able to support a household where the wife stays home and takes care of the house and children.
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Most women (and men) believe the things their parents teach them.
The thing with conservatives is they want to 1) prevent any other information flowing to these women, religious indoctrination only 2) get these women pregnant young so that they don’t have a chance to gain independence
So yeah in those cases you have grown women who believe these things. The Duggars are an example of the ‘quiver full’ movement in action. Letting their son abuse their daughters young so that they get used to it and defend it as normal.
My parents used to fearmonger the everliving shit about LGBTQ+ and abortion, and as a small kid I ate that shit up. But then at some point, my brain probably developed some modicum of critical thinking and thought, wait a minute, why in the world does it matter to me what people do with their own lives, if it doesn’t even affect me or anyone else for that matter? Why are my parents, along with every single bigot, incorrectly think that they are entitled to weigh in on someone else’s life decisions?
Every single argument from them boils down to “because religion”, but as someone who was raised Catholic (agnostic now), one of the things that they taught me was quite literally to “love thy neighbour” and to not shit on people only because of their beliefs. So why are the very same people who taught me that now doing the opposite of what they preach, trying (and fortunately failing) to shit on other people just because they don’t have the same beliefs? “My religion says it’s not OK,” well they don’t believe in the same things you do and could not give less of a shit about what you believe, so why not just leave them alone and let them live their life? It was around that point that I realised they were just hypocrites, and absolutely nothing more.
I grew up extremely conservative christian (homeschooled, no tv, women don’t work outside the house) and was taught that anything other than married man and women was evil.
The thing is we were also taught critical thinking and logic albeit it was to compare “new teachings” against the bible. My parents always said since the bible is true [sic] it would stand up to any scrutiny. They thankfully never learned the lesson most christian leaders have that Christianity needs to be mandated for it to be effective. Obviously the bible did not hold up to logic and I’m now a proud atheist and in the process of healing.
Man, that’s worse than what I experienced growing up. Out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with atheism? Personally, I’m agnostic (I think that’s the right term) because I see no compelling evidence or argument for either side, and I am of the opinion that a human’s finite brain could never even come close to figuring out the answer. And no, the Bible isn’t evidence, not one that’s even close to being the slightest bit rigorous at least. To me, it’s as much evidence for Christianity as the Harry Potter books are for wizardry.
You’re confusing belief with knowledge.
If you don’t believe in a deity, guess what, you’re an atheist regardless of whether you know for sure a god doesn’t exist or not.
Most atheists are agnostic because it’s not on us to prove that a god doesn’t exist, no one should ever take the burden of proving a negative.
Huh, never thought of it that way, thanks for that. If you’ll excuse me, I have quite a lot of rethinking to do.
That’s not entirely true, most definitions of Agnosticism frame it as a different position from Atheism.
Plus, you don’t have to prove something to believe it, if you’re convinced that there is no god you can define yourself an Atheist, that’s it. Agnostics are just “on the fence” and have no horse in the race.
No.
If you’re not convinced a god exists you’re atheist, plain and simple.
Now, you can be a hard atheist where you know a god doesn’t exist, or a soft atheist where you don’t know.
Knowledge is a subset of belief. A belief when you have strong evidence is knowledge if you will. Like science.
Because one cannot choose a belief, you either are convinced or not, you can’t really be on the fence.
Wikipedia defines Agnosticism as:
It is not related to actual knowledge. No matter the claims one can make, no one can be 100% sure whether a god exists or not. It’s called “faith” because people choose to believe despite the lack of irrefutable evidence.
Belief, on the other hand, is definitely a spectrum and you can be convinced or skeptical of affirmations from both sides. There’s also apatheists that simply don’t care whether it exists or not, or Ignostics that question the question itself. There’s plenty of people “on the fence”. The definition of Nontheism for example encompasses all those three, but not Atheism.
Agnostic Atheism is a position that’s very close to Atheism, but not all Agnostics are Agnostic Atheists.
The journey went: disappointment with God, angry at God, apathetic, agnostic, then atheist. I considered myself agnostic for a long time but it always felt a bit like a compromise for me, like it’s more palatable to think “Oh, I just don’t know one way or another” over seeing god as a stopgap for holes in knowledge.
Rather than the approach of attributing less and less to the divine over time, I decided to attribute nothing and go from there.
Saying that one can’t disprove god’s existence feels the same to me as saying a watermelon is blue inside until it’s observed.
Thanks for your perspective!
Regarding your last point, we only know that the flesh of a watermelon is indeed red because we’ve seen it before. If, say, an alien would suddenly come to Earth and be presented with a watermelon, they would not know what colour it is without cracking it open or otherwise probing it with various tools (granted of course that they perceive colour like we do)
Attributing nothing to the divine is also the way I go about it. We have scientific explanations for most phenomenon we see on a daily basis, and for those we do not, I do think we will find scientific explanations for them one day. None of the mysteries of the universe that would later be answered have been caused by the supernatural, so I have no reason to think it will be different.
However, I do think that a lack of observable trace of a “divine being” is not necessarily an evidence of nonexistence. To me, my agnosticism is not a form of compromise, but a recognition of the limitations of humans, as well as an acknowledgement relative inconsequence the question of whether a divine being exists or not is to the universe and to my own life. If nothing in my life or in the known universe can be attributed to the divine, why does it matter whether it exists or not? If an extraterrestrial exists in some distant galaxy, surely it would not matter to them whether I exist or not. That’s the way I think of the idea of divine beings.
Anyways, it’s kind of great to be able to ramble about this on the internet, most of the people I know are religious and unfortunately would not be very tolerant of this type of viewpoint.
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Check again, conservatives are no longer fiscally conservative and have not been for several decades. That facade has entirely fallen away to reveal the real:
They are fiscally conservative… but only for any government programs that aren’t tax cuts for the rich.
Being conservative ≠ liking the GOP
Being conservative = tangentially supporting GOP policies
Not every GOP policy is bad. Do you think stuff like freedom of speech is a bad thing?
Those two sentences are unrelated since the GOP is pretty explicitly against freedom of speech given all their book banning and don’t say gay bills and the like. Unless you’re defining freedom of speech their absolutely brain dead way they use it of ‘We’re free to openly be as big of a piece of shit as we like with no consequences. If you use your freedom of speech to call us out, or use your freedom of association to kick us off your property you’re oppressing us’ in which case yeah, that’s still a bad policy, naming a bad policy after a good one to trick people doesn’t make it a good policy
Freedom of speech means you can’t be arrested for what you say. Any policies that ban certain types of speech are very clearly unconstitutional.
Using freedom of speech to defend your opinion is literally saying “my opinion is valid because it’s not illegal”.
What do you think fiscally conservative means?
it should result in reducing the deficit - which republicans don’t and democrats do.
all the GOP does is cut the taxes of rich and raise the taxes of the middle class, while running up the deficit overall.
That is exactly what fiscally conservative means. That’s 100% what I expect when a politician has conservative economic views. Conservatives value keeping the status quo, and the status quo is capitalism, with the rich getting richer.
yeah, but people not in the know think it just means ‘prudent government spending’. What it actually means is funnel as much money from the government/taxpayer to the existing rich as possible. I think we are saying the same thing, cheers
Your meds, take them
This be libertarian. Me no bother you. You no take my money/freedom/et al.
Democrats and republicans are all corporate national socialists who want to take all your shit and trick you into liking it.
That has nothing to do with conservatism. Just because some people who are conservative said that, doesn’t mean that that’s a part of it. Please attack specific ideas, not groups of people.
Conservatism is a set of ideas
That’s been Catholicism’s playbook since day one. There’s a reason they’re so against any kind of sex that doesn’t lead to procreation.
Course, it also used to be rooted in the fact that medicine was trash for a long time, and a lot of kids died, so you’d want to have as many as you could to give some a shot at living a full life. But that’s not the case anymore, so yeah, the only reasons to have as many kids as possible is as you say, to outnumber the sane people, and to keep the working class populated, so we inch closer and closer to Idiocracy becoming reality every day.
But hey, look at those shareholder’s profits!
Well, that and replacement theory.
They think it’s up to them to keep the skin as white as possible.
I don’t know why. I’m about as pale as you can get, and it is by far the WEAKEST of skin colors. We literally cannot go out in the sun without protection.
Sure, everyone should wear sunscreen, but I can get burnt walking out to the mailbox!
Ah. Sounds like you have fine genes my friend. The best genes.
Have you considered endless breeding?
Not only is it a lot of fun, but you can pass on those great genes you got there.
For real though, I have a red headed daughter and one that should have been a redhead. She got everything but the hair. The freckles, the pale blue eyes. A beam of light comes through the window and she starts smoking. Someone turns on a 100W lightbulb and she blisters. I get what you’re saying.
Accidentally deleted but yeah I’ve noticed an influx of conservative men matching with me despite clear indications that I’m liberal. Unfortunately I do know these sorts of women exist, but maybe conservative men should seek them out instead of someone clearly liberal who doesn’t want to make their body a baby factory.
They like the idea of dating a liberal woman so they can control her.
"Hey girl, why don’t you take those shoes off and come into the kitchen?
Oh yeah, you like those historic gender roles don’t you… 😘"
That’s hot.
You know what else is hot? This water for the dishes.
Lol I’m sure that’s a thing, but for me and most women I know, that’s a red flag.
Well, yeah. I think that’s the whole topic here.
Alternately, because she’s attractive and some guys are idiots. For some guys “looks” overrides everything else.
It’s unreal how many guy will date a flat out manipulative, immature, mean asshole because she’s “hot”. Compared to that a decent human being is a catch, regardless of if they’re fundamentally incompatible.
Or maybe because they don’t have such extreme opinions like everyone here seems to think.
I think some of them fetishize the idea of “turning them conservative” with their dick or some shit
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Because these guys don’t want the full trade off of gender roles the conservatives promote. Many conservative women expect dating with the intent of marriage and at some point having the husband be able to support a household where the wife stays home and takes care of the house and children.
You say that kind of like it sounds like a good strategy to you? Sounds like a fucked way to think about society to me
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