• RandomPancake@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    10 months ago

    The election is a tug of war. Trump and his supporters are pulling on the right. Biden and his supporters are pulling on the left.

    When you vote for an independent candidate, you are removing force that could have been used to pull against Trump and redirecting that force towards a candidate who has zero chance of winning. A vote for an independent candidate is a vote for Trump.

    The only valid retort to this is “well I wasn’t going to vote anyway” and anyone who feels that way can shut the fuck up about everything.

    • centof@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      10 months ago

      A vote for an independent candidate is a vote for Trump.

      No. It is a vote for an independent candidate.

      • RandomPancake@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        10 months ago

        Which will remove yet another barrier to Trump becoming president.

        I’m all for breaking the two-party stranglehold but do it in a local election where it will make a difference. This year is the absolute worst year to try a failed presidential run.

        • centof@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          10 months ago

          I never advised anyone to vote for an independent candidate. I am simply correcting your misleading rhetoric.

          Good advice on focusing locally for third parties.

          • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            10 months ago

            The rhetoric isn’t misleading. When voter turnout is low, ergo the total number of votes for Republicans and Democrats are low, Republicans fare better. The US uses a first-past-the-post system of voting which devolves into a two-party system. This means that voting for a third party removes votes from the total number of ballots cast for one of the two actual candidate parties, which means fewer votes for Republicans and Democrats, which usually benefits Republicans far more than Democrats.

            All this to say that when you vote for a third party, Trump is more positively impacted than Biden, so you’re effectively increasing Trump’s chance of winning.

            • centof@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              10 months ago

              I agree with your general point that third party votes don’t matter nationally. This is kinda blunt, but you are making the false assumption that Party politicans are entitled to everyone’s votes. You can’t remove a vote that was never casted for a particular candidate.

              “The rhetoric isn’t misleading.”

              It is to me. A vote for an independent candidate does not in any way, shape, or form count as a vote for Trump. They are not the same thing.

              It is a fact that a vote for an independent candidate is not tallied the same as a vote for trump. It is nonsense to say they are the same. It’s like saying a vote for Hawaiian pizza is a vote for Pepperoni Pizza. It is hokum.

              • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                10 months ago

                Do you understand that some words mean something beyond their literal, exact definition? If someone says “it’s raining buckets”, would you come in and say “that rhetoric is misleading, I looked outside and no buckets are falling from the sky”?

                • centof@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  Of course. The problem is that when someone says one thing is another thing, that is not obviously metaphorical. Maybe you’d be able to tell in person but not through text where the message is monotonized and broadcasted to the entire internet.

      • RandomPancake@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        ·
        10 months ago

        It absolutely is. You’re removing a vote that could have been used to stop Trump and throwing it into a candidate who will not win. You are, quite literally saying, “I am completely fine with another Trump presidency”.

      • acceptable_pumpkin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        There you go again with no concept of how politics works in this country. You are either a shill, or a completely naive person. A vote for a 3rd party candidate is as effective as not voting in the national results. Can you at least see that? When electoral votes are tallied, and NONE go to a 3rd party candidate, those votes are wasted.

        I wish this country had a different voting system other than first past the goal posts, but it doesn’t so you need to be realistic in your vote.

        • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          10 months ago

          if voting for an independent candidate counts as not voting (that’s a lie), and not voting is the same as voting for trump, does that mean that if i vote for trump, it is 2 votes? no.

          you’re spreading misinformation.

    • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      10 months ago

      >When you vote for an independent candidate, you are removing force that could have been used to pull against Trump

      Jill Stein and Cornel West are running against trump.

      • RandomPancake@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        10 months ago

        That’s nice. They’ll lose, and the momentum put to that independent candidate is momentum that could have been used against Trump. Voting for either of them is a vote for “I am not interested in what happens in this country, and sincerely hope Trump wins. Because instead of voting against him, instead I choose to throw away my vote by making some kind of ‘statement’ that will never be heard by anyone.”

              • acceptable_pumpkin@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                10 months ago

                You sound like a teenager who has no concept of how voting in this country works. Yes, voting for a 3rd party candidate is not literally a vote for Trump, but the net effect is EXACTLY that. You may as well write in Bernie Sandwrs for all the good it will do.

                Don’t try and gaslight with your “SoUnDs LiKe VoTeR sUpPrEsSiOn” comment.

                • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  >Don’t try and gaslight with your “SoUnDs LiKe VoTeR sUpPrEsSiOn” comment.

                  it’s not gaslighting. it’s actually what you’re doing.

                • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  >voting for a 3rd party candidate is not literally a vote for Trump, but the net effect is EXACTLY that.

                  so does that mean voting for trump is like voting twice? no. you’re spreading misinformation.