‘We recognise China, and that Taiwan is part of China’ – Leo Varadkar clarifies Ireland’s position ahead of Davos meetings
m.independent.ie
The Taoiseach intends to press for a ceasefire in the Israel-Gaza war at a meeting of global political and business leaders in Davos.
            • DillyDaily@lemmy.world
              10·
              10 months ago

              Britain is historically just England and Wales, though colloquially now used as a shorter way of saying “Great Britain”, which is England, Wales, and Scotland.

              The British isles is England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (and all the smaller islands like the Hebrides, Orkneys, etc)

              • Womble@lemmy.worldEnglish
                7·
                10 months ago

                I’ve literally never heard that or read anything suggesting that. Britain/Britons has been used to describe the islands and peoples of the north Atlantic archipelago since ancient times with great Britain simply referring to the largest island (i.e. England+Scotland+Wales), as per wiki

                Written record

                The first known written use of the word was an ancient Greek transliteration of the original P-Celtic term. It is believed to have appeared within a periplus written in about 325 BC by the geographer and explorer Pytheas of Massalia, but no copies of this work survive. The earliest existing records of the word are quotations of the periplus by later authors, such as those within Diodorus of Sicily’s history (c. 60 BC to 30 BC), Strabo’s Geographica (c. 7 BC to AD 19) and Pliny’s Natural History (AD 77).[10] According to Strabo, Pytheas referred to Britain as Bretannikē, which is treated a feminine noun.[11][12][13][14] Although technically an adjective (the Britannic or British) it may have been a case of noun ellipsis, a common mechanism in ancient Greek. This term along with other relevant ones, subsequently appeared inter alia in the following works:

                Pliny referred to the main island as Britannia, with Britanniae describing the island group.[15][16]
Catullus also used the plural Britanniae in his Carmina.[17][18]
Avienius used insula Albionum in his Ora Maritima.[19]
Orosius used the plural Britanniae to refer to the islands and Britanni to refer to the people thereof.[20]
Diodorus referred to Great Britain as Prettanikē nēsos and its inhabitants as Prettanoi.[21][22]
Ptolemy, in his Almagest, used Brettania and Brettanikai nēsoi to refer to the island group and the terms megale Brettania (Great Britain) and mikra Brettania (little Britain) for the islands of Great Britain and Ireland, respectively.[23] However, in his Geography, he referred to both Alwion (Great Britain) and Iwernia (Ireland) as a nēsos Bretanikē, or British island.[24]
  • erranto@lemmy.world
    40·
    10 months ago

    He is not technically wrong, as the Taiwanese themselves haven’t declared independence from China.

    • erranto@lemmy.world
      29·
      10 months ago

      So they are not independent then. not even their staunchest ally (USA) recognizes their Independence, so I don’t see where is the controversy with Irish PM’s statement.

    • Dekkia@this.doesnotcut.it
      19·
      10 months ago

      Yes, but that stems more from the fact that the Republic of China (aka Taiwan) and the People’s Republic of China both lay claims to be the real China.

      You can’t really declare independence from yourself.

      Also the PRC would probably attack immediately if the ROC gave up their claim on being china.

        • Dekkia@this.doesnotcut.it
          1·
          10 months ago

          Not sure if I would call it a threat.

          Congressman Seth Moulton prposed to do this in May '23. Taiwan obviously wasn’t happy about that proposal.

          Then there’s also a statement by former National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien from March '23 where he said that “I can’t imagine they’d be intact” after an invasion of China.

          The 2nd one is a bit nebulous but doesn’t talk about reunification but about annexation.

    • Tvkan@feddit.de
      12·
      10 months ago

      Because the PRC has set this as a red line. The Taiwanese would do it in a heartbeat.

      • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
        23·
        10 months ago

        No, it’s because they claim sovereignty over the whole of China + parts who already are independent from the People’s Republic of China. They are not independent, just the old regime in exile. To them Taiwan is just a province of China just as it is for the PRC

        • Ranvier@sopuli.xyz
          9·
          10 months ago

          Interestingly China would also be quite upset if Taiwan stopped claiming sovereignty over the mainland. To them that would signal an end to the one China policy. So Taiwan maintaining its claim to the mainland is actually to keep China happy. I don’t think the Taiwan government is under any illusion that they will someday take over the mainland.

          • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
            1·
            10 months ago

            It sounds extremely convoluted that a government considering itself “rightful” (ROC/Taiwan) who fought and lost a war with revolutionaries (PRC/“China”) would continue the claim that led to a war to not piss off the revolutionaries?

            Is this some homebrew theory or do you have a source?

            • Ranvier@sopuli.xyz
              1·
              10 months ago

              Not some home brew theory. And it is very convoluted, but it’s bascially more “one China” policy word games.

              The Taiwanese president unofficially stated in 1991 they do not claim mainland China, but this was never affirmed by courts and there’s no force of law behind it. They cannot officially do this currently without greatly antagonizing China. China’s view is that Taiwan limiting its borders to include only Taiwan and not all of China, would signal the end of the “one China” policy and be a precursor to Taiwanese independence. If Tawain were to declare different national borders that include only the island itself, then China would view it as a violation of their anti secession law passed in 2005, which threatens military force in retaliation. In China’s view, they are another government still within China and still in civil war, without the authority to re-define national borders.

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Secession_Law

              Continuing to claim mainland China as part of the same country is continuing the current status quo, any deviations from that would be viewed as an attempted separation of “indivisable” China. So the claim to the mainland at this point in history is primarily to not antagonize China and continue the status quo situation.

  • jaeme@lemmy.ml
    16·
    10 months ago

    Taiwan seperatists keep losing!

    There will be one China and Taiwan will be a respected part of that China.

    • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
      27·
      10 months ago

      Err… the Philippines, the former US colony? Where currently new US military bases are being built? Which China has never ruled, attempted to rule, or said they want to rule?

      You’re worried that China is going to claim the Philippines???

      • Pons_Aelius@kbin.social
        7·
        10 months ago

        Which China has never ruled

        True, the CCP claiming The Philippines would be seen as ridiculous by the rest of the world.

        Then again, the CCP has never ruled Taiwan either…

        • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
          15·
          10 months ago

          Then again, the CCP has never ruled Taiwan either…

          Oh yeah that’s like exactly the same situation.

          1. Send US military to “protect” one side in the Chinese civil war and occupy parts of China.
          2. Say you’re in favor of eventual peaceful reunification, but actually prevent it for decades.
          3. Break promise and claim the territory was never really part of China to begin with.
          4. Pretend you’re the victim and China is “expansionist”.
          5. World War 3?
      • Truck_kun@beehaw.orgEnglish
        3·
        10 months ago

        They wouldn’t claim the Philippines without a war.

        But the Chinese government is trying to claim territorial waters, and their aggression toward all their neighbors is exactly why the Philippines have decided to work with the US and open new bases.

        They may not claim it, but they are definitely the aggressor in the territory, and most of their neighbors do not view the Chinese government as ‘the good guys’; that’s not to say they view the US as ‘the good guys’ either, simply as the one that isn’t actively aggressive and could assist in their defense.

      • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
        21·
        10 months ago

        Anyone with even a smidge of knowledge about the actual situation of the Taiwan issue.

        Contrary to what’s usually depicted, neither Taiwan nor China consider Taiwan as an independent country. Taiwan, or more accurately the Republic of China (ROC), claims sovereignty over this territory.

        Both the ROC and the People’s Republic of China (PRC) consider Taiwan to be a province of China, it just happens that the ROC only has control over Taiwan while the PRC has control over China

      • Gabu@lemmy.ml
        3·
        10 months ago

        Did you even think before writing that? What am I saying, of course you didn’t.

        the ROC doesn’t consider th Taiwan to be an independent state

        Because they lose any possible claim to their continuity as the rightful government of China by doing so. Also, the CCP would be quite pissy about that.

      • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
        1·
        10 months ago

        No :)

        Let’s see. How can I break this down.

        I think it’s quite fair to assume that when people use the term China in isolation, they are referring to the authoritarian dictatorship state controlled by the CCP, The Peoples Republic of China.

        ROC a governmental body, still holds onto the idea that it is the sole rightful “owner” of all the territories of pre-1949 China. Good for them, a little far from reality but I can’t blame them for having dreams.

        A significant portion of the people of Taiwan do not under any circumstances want to be part of anything under rule of the CCP, which in reality means that they do not want to be part of the Peoples Republic of China. The ROC, on the other hand, still wants to hold into the idea of their claim over the whole region, so it’s interests are in conflict with the people’s in that regard.

        Thus! Taiwan is an independent state from the PRC because the chances of the PRC being governed by anyone but the CCP is slim to none.

        I note you went straight to swearing at me, quoting my own “fuck right off” which was directed at a government and not any individual. I’m sure you understand why this doesn’t make me any more likely to support your stance, but do try to be kinder.

  • Gabu@lemmy.ml
    4·
    10 months ago

    He must’ve mispoken - China is a part of Taiwan, as everyone knows.