Someone I used to work with gets paid a truly ridiculous amount of money because she changes jobs around every 14 months to 2 years. She hates every job she takes and is constantly worried that her boss hates her in every role. I don’t think she’s happy, despite the huge pay. I’d rather be happy. I work to live, not live to work.
I hope she retires early and enjoys life after work.
FIRE people know
That’s the thing, being able to pay bills makes me happy. Work will never make me happy.
That’s the thing, paying bills doesn’t make you happy, it just temporarily eliminates the drop in happiness that would occur if you didn’t pay those bills.
Happiness is just a lack of unhappiness
Well no. My point is that while money can’t buy happiness, it can mitigate sources of unhappiness.
I dunno, money can also buy a jet ski
Money can’t directly buy happiness, but it certainly smooths out the path. Also, money may not be able to buy happiness, but not-money can’t buy anything.
I agree with you that the pursuit of an ever-increasing bank account is probably not a route to happiness (or more importantly contentedness, happiness is fleeting), but the reality of our world is that not having a livable amount of money tends to put direct blocks in front of your contentedness, which having money tends to dissolve.
You’re taking the piss.
But there is some amount of genuine truth to this simple statement.
I’m in a unique and enviable position where my work is basically nothing on the day to day. It pays enough to get by, barely, but it gives me so much free time that well… That aspect of work makes me happy lmao
Could use that free time to work another job and get paid more. That’d be my first thought at least.
Meh. I’d rather work on my mental and physical health and spend time doing the things that make me happy.
Yeah, i have a friend like that. Gets paid twice (maybe 3x?) what i do but has no friends and is miserable. Well, things have been getting better for him at least and i’ve been making more money lately so i guess things are looking up.
So, you have a friend that has no friends? 🤨
It’s complicated.
Yeah the new strategy is lateral climbing. Companies don’t value loyalty and don’t give raises for sticking around anymore, so fuck em.
I laugh at people bitching about their pay. Move. On. Why would the company suddenly throw you a 20% raise!? Out of the goodness of their heart?
My last 3 jobs (top pay): $14 -> $22 -> $39. At this point I could probably jump ship for more but I’m quite content to retire out of this place.
Stay put 3-5 years, gain experience, jump. When we moved here my buddy took a job at an oil change place, barely above min wage and far below his skillset. Kept job hopping and now he’s making $120K+.
My first job after I got my BSME was $45k in 2012. I was there until 2017, and left at $62k. Next job started at $72k, left at $76k in 2020. Next job was back at my first company, at $82k. So, my value went up to them 20k in a couple years. I just started a new job last month, left my old place at $96k and started at $115k.
I want to stay in one place, with coworkers and work that I like. But clearly, you have to keep moving at least every few years to really make anything. I knew guys that had been at that first company for 20+ years. Working with them again at this new place, they got like 50k increases from where they were because they were basically just getting cost of living increases for two decades.
Right!
Also, if your employer only bumps you up to where you should be after you threaten to leave after years of under-compensation, they’ve still won, not you. Sure you’re now being paid fairly but you’ll never get back all that pay you should’ve been getting all along. And if you don’t have that money, they do.
…I should look for a new job, perhaps
Doesn’t hurt to check out your options. And almost any job will welcome you back (usually at your new pay rate) if you change your mind down the road.
Over my career, lateral moves have netted me +80%, +30%, and 20%. Not to mention quality of work/life improvements.
Most companies basically offer a < 5% raise every year, which is just around inflation. Maybe a 10% bump if you get promoted. The wider world values your skills much more.
Follow the ABCs. Always Be Checking.
It doesn’t cost you a dime to keep your resume up to date and to check Indeed and Linked In one every few weeks for jobs like yours in your area.
Worst case, you look around and find there’s nothing in your area paying much better than you are currently earning. Congrats. You’re in as good a position as you can reasonably expect.
More likely though, you’ll see one or more of a few other trends in your search:
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Employers are all looking for a specific skill adjacent to your skill set that you don’t have. Might be time to look into a class or something to pick this skill up and increase your potential.
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Employers around you are all willing to pay more than you’re making but want more experience. In this case you can sit tight…or throw your hat into the ring even with less experience. They may take a flier on you, especially in this tight labor market.
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Employers around you are willing to pay more for your skills and experience. This is most likely but you now need to check out why, and decide if you’re interested.
Even if you’re not really interested (maybe the specific opening is too far away or not a big pay increase or something) it may still be worth reaching out, even if just for interview practice. Lots of people really struggle with interviews, and being able to do one where you’re not really intent on landing the job may be a valuable experience.
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It’s sad how true this is. I quit my job and went to work for another company for a year. The previous company contacted me wanting me back, and hired be back after a year for $15k more than before. I’ve been there a year now and got a 3% raise. Probably should just quit again and get rehired
Suddenly no more office-only or office-first policies, suddenly there is money to offer, suddenly there is possibility to have a better computer.
Also suddenly HR system couldn’t work for a week, so signing a new counter-offer contract might not be possible at the moment. “Cancel your offer, you will sign in next week”.
Interesting stuff :)
That’s a shitty move 😅
But really, sometimes someone from the top just wants everyone in the office so hard that no counter-offer can outweigh the desire to quit
Stupid question, wasn’t that a risky move? I mean, the way I was raised to think by my parents I can hear their voices in the back of my head if I went through a situation like this, similar to this:
“But aren’t you worried they might hire you then fire you just out of spite for switching companies? And then what are you gonna do?”
Not OP, but companies don’t really care about people to that degree. They act for profit, or perceived profit, or to avoid a loss- someone that they know to be useful who is already familiar with the business is more valuable than an unknown.
Makes sense. People think they are the center of the universe when companies only see you as an additional cog in the machine. I’m not sure if I’m happy or sad by this. I’ll choose the positive side of things today.
Yeah, it’s both shitty and sometimes useful. It reminds me of an article I read once about implicit hierarchies- sometimes when organizations try to do away with traditional management, what they end up with instead is an unofficial and opaque control structure based on cliques and influence. In those cases it can be better for newcomers if there is an explicit set of rules and guidelines.
Do you have a source for this article? I’ve found that this has happened on my company and I am curious about the phenomenon
I don’t - it was quite a while ago, sorry. I’ll do some searching and let you know if I find it again.
It wasn’t risky because I wanted to leave. I had problems with how they ran things. Then I realized the new place was even worse, and the old place reached out to me offering my job back. They explained how many of the things that I had issues with had been resolved or were being worked on. And they weren’t lying because I’m still there and quite happy.
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No company with a single HR person would re-hire you just to fire you out of spite. It costs a chunk of time and money to get someone onboarded, which would be wasted. If they didn’t like you, they could just forget about you.
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“And then what are you gonna do” is pretty clear, go back to the other company or find a different job. Not really a bad outcome.
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I was born into a family run company. Gave them 10 years of my life. The first few years I worked really hard and got a 2-3 dollar raise. Shortly after, minimim wage went up to 50 cents below what I was making. I did not get another raise until 2-3 years down the line. Regardless who your employer is, get treated fairly or leave for somewhere that will treat you fairly.
And if you left based on that stagnant wage, I bet they gave you the guilt trip about loyalty, and how hard it is to operate a small business, as if that somehow makes it okay to underpay you.
They weren’t too bad when I left and even pitched in for some of my schooling. I still don’t feel bad taking a couple cans of soup whenever I visit though. And the work did teach me a lot of skills and a great work ethic.
Join a union job.
Show me a union web dev job.
Start one.
Unironically, this. At my previous company we started holding “engineering meetings” that deliberately excluded leadership, and had a lot of jokes about starting a union. By the time I quit it seemed like everyone was on board, so if anyone really wanted to push it then it could have happened.
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I’ve seen school districts with union web dev positions. They don’t pay the best but the benefits are usually pretty good and you’re not likely to work more than 40 hours a week.
Since you mention it and I have little knowledge on the subject: How would your average person in the U.S. (in this case) find and apply for union jobs?
Well I’m honestly not sure how many IT unions there are so here’s a crash course on how to start one.
https://www.rankandfile.ca/starting-a-union/
Alternatively, one could approach an already established union and discuss joining.
Sad, but true. First 7 years of my software career were split between two companies and despite 3 promotions and exceeding expectations in reviews regularly, salary growth was between 2-5% YoY.
Most recent 5 years of my career I’ve changed jobs every 6ish months and am now averaging about 40% YoY salary growth.
Insane that a company will pay you a 20% premium to hire someone that they’ll spend 6-months training just to watch said person fly off to another firm.
Contracting is even worse. Bring someone on to do menial piecework at 2x-5x the median company salary, then kick them out so you can bring on another person who has no idea how your company operates to do the same entry-level jobs. All so you don’t have to tell investors how many people are actually on your payroll.
No wonder the business failure rate is so fucking high.
And then they act like it’s the employees who are wrong. I bet every single one of the job hoppers enjoying these huge salary benefits would prefer to just chill in the same job forever if it achieved the same thing.
Its nice to be both secure in your job and confident in your work. Changing positions is exhausting, both in the job-hunting process and the re-training process once you land a new gig. Then you’re back at the bottom of the “knows what I’m doing here” totem pole.
One big reason I’m at 6 years and counting in my current gig is the enjoyment I’ve had in building a system and maintaining it consistently. Its nice to know the folks in the business appreciate my work. And if I have to wave another company’s job offer under my boss’s nose from time to time in order to keep my salary competitive, I think that’s more just a disconnect between management and staff I’m obligated to make for them every couple of years. At least they’re receptive and responsive to my demands, which is more than I can say of prior employers.
I can only speak for myself, but that’s exactly why I left my last job. I loved it and the people I worked with, but I couldn’t afford that pay rate with such poor benefits.
On my way out, they told me that they wished they had 10 more employees like me.
They didn’t want it bad enough to pay even one employee a little more, though. I am not the only person who left recently lmao
Absolutely! I had a job some 3 years back that said if I continue to perform well, I could probably be promoted in 2 years.
This was on the heels of no bonuses or raises that year (well, for the team I was on).
2 years? Also that was the team’s reward after a year of work? This was a Fortune 500 company with over $10B in revenue.
The next month…layoffs. We spent the month figuring out all the tribal knowledge that went out the door.
The next month after that…contractors must take 2 unpaid days off every month and holiday closures don’t count towards that.
The next month they said, “Good news! We’re renewing your contract.” - Nope. I’m out.
Last I heard everyone on my team also left in the following 3 months, the director of the department also left, and the VP got forced out and replaced.
Endless cycle of garbage.
It’s an absolute cluster. It’s also led to me just not caring about the job or company anymore (not like I should).
I love supporting the team and my immediate coworkers, but I’m not there to make friends. For all we know our entire project gets canned one day anyway.
It’s a sad state of affairs to basically take advantage of this situation, but like…company loyalty doesn’t pay my bills.
There are also a second
handcaste of contractors, it’s the ones that work as ordinary employees but employed by another company so that they don’t get benefits
I’ve been with the same place for about 16 years. I wasted a lot of time staying in one department trying to be the best employee. I’ve moved repeatedly just within the company. Because moving within the company is pretty easy to do. The yearly pay raises I was getting was garbage. By moving departments and renegotiating my pay I’ve effectively doubled my pay from 4 years ago.
When there’s no incentive to stay but all the reason to go…
Telling your manager how shit they are is very satisfying too
It’s not worth it if you chase money. Even the biggest assholes at your previous job might end up in a place adjacent to you, especially if you don’t look internationally (or at least out of your area) for jobs.
Naw that’s the lie they want you to believe. Tell your manager to fuck off; you’ll never see them again.
If you want an anecdote, I was cordial when leaving my last job while pursuing something with much more risk. To my surprise, my manager said the door is always open if I want to come back.
It cost me nothing to be nice, and it gave me a free safety net. You never know what opportunities you’ll get, so be nice, help others, and put in a tiny bit of effort.
Or don’t, but I recommend considering it
Tell you manager what went wrong politely if necessary, being rude in a professional setting may look cool in some fantasy but nothing good will come out of it.
It really doesn’t matter at all. You’re quitting. You already have a new job lined up. You will never interact with these people again. Nobody asks for references outside of minimum wage positions unless they’re a small shop.
Nobody asks for references outside of minimum wage positions unless they’re a small shop.
I’ve found this to be highly variable over my past few career moves.
My resume indicates that professional references are available upon request.
In my last two job searches, I’ve had responses ranging from absolutely zero interest in references, to not only requesting the ones I indicated but also asking for even more names and contacts.
Obviously your mind is already made up, but in my experience, it seems the wise move to stay professional in your professional life, even when leaving a bad job.
I am a mid career enginer, I was requested two references, one colleague and one manager, for my current job.
What is your reason for telling your manager to fuck off? Ego satisfaction for 5 min? What about thinking that if you tell him what went wrong, maybe they can improve, which may improve the work conditions of your ex colleagues? I find that more satisfying. I always try to raise my voice to improve my ex-colleagues conditions before I leave because I’m freer to speak up.
Every career job I’ve ever left has included my manager helping me to secure a higher position at the new job. I disliked some of those managers.
A big part in learning how to be successful is learning when it’s worth it to be petty and when you should just take your money.
That’s interesting. I’ve never once had that happen.
The bigger employers I’ve left just didn’t care and were already looking into how to replace me while I was finishing out my last two weeks. The smaller ones always were concerned with squeezing as much production out of my last few hours as they possibly could.
In neither case were they ever interested in my career beyond their doors.
Field could definitely play a role as well.
I wouldn’t recommend burning any bridges you don’t have to.
Though my last employer was pissed when I got an offer for 30% more when he spent the last 6 months training me.
He immediately counter-offered to match and he didn’t even have to check with anyone. I called him out on underpaying me by 30%. This was probably a mistake, but he was kind of an asshole anyway so meh.
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This comment makes no sense. You can change jobs any time, and the sooner you get paid more, the sooner you can switch to a position that pays even higher
Also capitalism has no bearing on what you’re paid.
Like, you can work exclusively in government roles, NGOs, or co-ops and change jobs every 3 years and make vastly more than you were making when you started.
I think the idea is that more employers are being cautious right now, and so employees lose a bit of leverage going into negotiations. They’d rather wait with what they have, some sense of stability, and enter the job market again when things are looking better for the employees.
Is this necessarily true or accurate? I don’t really know, that’s a bit outside of my pay grade, but I get the reasoning
The thing is, while interest rates and wages are in some ways connected, it’s a far less direct connection than simply taking a look at the overall labor market, competitive pay rates for your skills, and going job hunting when yours isn’t keeping up.
Regardless of interest rates, the labor market is tight right now, which means better offers from those companies willing to compete for qualified workers, end of story.
Honestly, while I’m no economist, I would think that most companies aren’t borrowing in order to cover payroll, so while interest rates may affect their decisions in regards to capital investments, they only have a tangential effect on hiring and compensation offers. In fact if anything, maybe a high interest rate might dissuade a company from capital investment and steer them toward a focus on staffing.
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I think interest rates are usually lowered to combat a recession. I.e. when you really do not want to be looking for a job.
I read a few times that there is a breaking point between people who switch jobs every 3 years on average. Any less often you make significantly less at retirement.
I’m sure there is a value that’s too often but I’ve tried to stay pretty close to the 3 year mark and we make about 5x what my wife and I wanted to make at retirement.
It sucks but it’s true. These days, loyalty just means you’re easier to take for granted.
Yep, a medium sized youtuber that worked as HR said this to everyone that is looking for a raise: change company and come back.
Always good to know what you are worth and keep interviewing skills sharp. But yeah, you could wait years for a promotion (more responsibilities!) and it only be 10% whereas a lateral move at a new company could be higher pay for the same type/amount of work. Crazy, right?
