Pope Francis last week approved a ruling at the Vatican that permitted priests to administer blessings to same-sex couples.
Evangelical leader accuses pope of creating “division” with LGBTQ+ views
Oh, that’s rich, coming from someone who’s on the wrong side of pretty much everything.
Why is there a never ending series of these guys? Pat Robertson finally died and like Hydra there are two more to replace him
You only hear about the lead grifter at any point in time. There’s always a bunch of them.
As long as the money is there to grift, people will do so.
His dad, Billy, wrote an impassioned defense of the perpetrators of the Mai Lai massacre. The garbage apple doesn’t fall far from the garbage tree.
I went and seen WV Grant work his magic once. I wish I could remember the date so I could order the dvd haha.
His father did the same thing, and he passed the con on down the line.
He told several people that I know personally that they were healed of various problems. Of course, none of them were. I wish I had the balls of James Randi and I would’ve done my best to make a show of it. That’s difficult when you’re with your very religious family all expecting miracles though.
When I told my people of his various scams (fake orphanages in Haiti, tax evasion on his mansions they bought for him), I was accused of planting seeds of doubt that cost them their blessings. Apparently god can even work through a conman and believing is everything.
Great supernatural powers always seem to exist just around the corner. “I heard from a man I trust that magic filled the air and people who had been paralyzed 20 years got up and ran around.” Oh, ohhhhh, well hell, I didn’t know Bobby “Mack Daddy” Hicks was a witness. That changes everything.
I wish I didn’t have a conscience sometimes. It would be easier than ever to run that scam today. I’d make a Facebook account called “God Bible of the Living Jesus” and set up a tent revival. All I’d have to do is scan timelines for “pray for aint Betty. She have leg problem keep her wake all nite. A man.” and hit the stage, “Betty, Betty with the leg problems keeping her up all night! The lord said come see me Betty, get up here! Do you believe you’ll sleep tonight? Do you believe them leeeegggs gonna be healed? OH SHONDRA MAH HYBA MAH HEEP BABA MAKOYA! You’re healed if you believe it Betty! Who just felt the spirit flying all over this tent?!”
Poor Betty would think she just didn’t believe enough and I’d be standing at the bank the next morning with her disability check.
Unfortunately, I love poor Betty and I don’t even know her. Damn my conscience.
Also, Billy Graham’s Troubling, Nasty Nixon Moment
The legendary religious leader exposed a nasty side in a 1972 meeting with Richard Nixon.
Christian leader encourages love. Heretics/Pharisees get very angry and call for more hate. And Jesus wept.
Last I remember, Jesus never wept for the Pharisee but instead got angry and invoked the Table Flip meme.
Like this.
(-_- )ﾉ⌒┫ ┻ ┣ ┳
(c’mon he’s a demigod, he could totally do this)
Punishment for heresy is excommunication, used to be a fine and or imprisonment and sometimes to be burnt alive. Bible says to warn them twice then ignore them entirely ostracizing them from society. If they were real christens they should be canceling each other for biblical wrong think. Its hilarious that people who dont follow the faith, regularly know more about what the bible says then people who are adamant “followers”.
Almost like reading the book exposes a bunch of hypocracy within the organizations that preach it.
Stop saying Jesus wept(!)
“Heretics.”
It may be convenient to distance yourself from this, but Christians that don’t actively support LGBTQ+ issues are still Christians. They’re not “heretics”.
In fact, I would say that the Christians that have decided to ignore parts of their supposed holy book because it isn’t convenient are more akin to “heretics.”
The bible is full of hate and bigotry, and it is very clear about homosexuality. As much as people want them to be, the two are not compatible.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Christians who think Jesus promoted hate are heretics.
The bible is not clear about homosexuality, the heretics just like to twist its words to try to justify their own hatred.
But it is very clear on how you should treat your neighbor. And that part those heretics ignore by the bucket load.
Paul is pretty clear, but there are a few interesting arguments based on context— or of course, arguments for scrapping Paul’s work.
I expect they were using the term heretic because “evangelical” generally implies protestantism, which split off from catholicism and so could technically be considered a heresy of it
All these satanic mfers wearing rayon and eating shellfish…
I’m Atheist but I guess you could rationalize it this way, Jesus never actually says anything about being gay in the new testament. That stuff comes from Paul’s letters.
Ok…? So you can ignore the entire old testament?
So is the Bible not God’s word then? Or only parts of it are? Who gets to decide which parts?
If there are parts in our current Bible that were included erroneously, then how can you know that others weren’t as well? How can you know that there aren’t other books that should have been included, but weren’t? Lots of gnostic gospels with some interesting stories, who gets to determine which ones are “real”?
Dear Protestants, you get less of a say in Catholicism than I do as an ex Catholic heretic as you tend to know basically nothing about Catholicism. Both of us, alongside lay Catholics, priests, monks, nuns, and even bishops get less of a say in Catholicism than the fucking pope, because he’s the goddamn pope. If you really want to overrule him have an ecumenical counsel that’s respected by the Catholic Church, it’s the only thing aside from a booming voice in the sky that gets to overrule the pope.
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Catholics are still on the conservative end of the religious spectrum, though, so evangelical leaders make Pope Francis appear even more progressive than he is. They’re like the perfect foils for him.
The pope is a jesuit. They usually are scholars and work in science. The pope is a chemist. Jesuit schools teach evolution and all that. Basically looked at like secular liberals by conservative catholics.
The current pope is a Jesuit, and Jesuits are typically among the more progressive Catholics. But Catholics in general are among the more conservative Christians, which is the point the comment you replied to was making.
It’s like American Democrats are on the global right wing of politics. Bernie and AOC being more left wing doesn’t change the fact that Democrats as a whole are neoliberals.
But Catholics in general are among the more conservative Christians,
In modern US? No. “Non-denominational”/Evangelical Christians tend to be far more conservative on average.
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Evangelicals really shouldn’t be commenting on the pope. They believe that Catholics aren’t Christian (or aren’t true Christians because of the whole icons and praying to the saints things). This guy needs to stay in his lane.
its funny considering catholics were literally the original church, and we ask saints to pray for us like how you would ask your loved ones to pray for you. i dont know why everyone else gets that saints part wrong about us like were worshipping saints
Evangelicals don’t care that they’re wrong. And they believe that the Catholic Church has wandered too far from the ‘original church’ to a point where it’s no longer actually worshiping god, but has been twisted by the devil. So they ‘return’ to how their idea of what ‘the original church’ is instead. They recognize, however that their worship is actually nothing like the original church and despite not having proper biblical support, believe they are actually worshiping the right way. It’s one of the many contradictions they actively hold highly.
This was my experience with evangelicals, which I’m rather sure is rather more expansive than most as I’ve lived all over the country attending several evangelical churches in each place, grew up VERY active with Billy graham ministries and focus on the family, spent my first 4 years of school in the evangelical home school system known as A.C.E., ‘interned’ for teen mania ministries which brought together evangelicals from around the world, all of whom conformed quite directly to this experience, and attended a Christian university where a pre-req was to do an academic deep dive into Christianity which is, unsurprisingly, the catalyst for what got me out… I of course spent more time learning about the evolution of evangelicalism than I did the rest of the denominations as I was continually having my world rocked by how little sense any of the general beliefs actually make and was desperately grasping for anything to settle my worldview back down.
Evangelicals are stupid, they know it, and they revel in their ignorance (faith of a child bullshit taken so far out of any semblance of context).
preying to merry though, pretty common. funny though i was raised catholic but my mothers side are Irish protestant and i remember talking about the differences with my aunt, she said, you go to merry, we go to the man himself.
we go to both 😎 jesus will always listen to what his mother asks of him
thats very true. are you born again christian or always practiced?
i was raised catholic too
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Catholics weren’t the original church. That claim of theirs basically hinges on the claim that Peter started the Papal succession which is bullshit also, when Peter came to Rome James was already Bishop in Jerusalem. Coptics are also definitely contenders, tracing themselves back to Mark. That was all before the New Testament was written, the newest parts date to as late as 100CE.
…and that’s organisationally. When it comes to rites and theology the Orthodox Churches and Coptics have a much better claim at being original, Rome forming its doctrine to serve the unity of state and governance of the people as they were essentially the ministry of religion. And thus arguably the last remnant of the administration of the Roman Empire, I’ll give them that.
As to idolatry: Protestants deny that there’s a distinction between dulia and latria, consider it a rhetorical justification ex post, “We’re doing that stuff but as we can’t be idolaters we must now make up new terms to explain how it’s not actually idolatry”. That’s, mind you, Calvin and Luther, not the current bunch of nutjob US evangelicals I doubt those have ever considered anything about theology.
But… evangelicals’ whole thing is making shit up about things they know nothing about. I say, let 'em shake their fist at this guy. 😜
Damnit, you’re right. They’re the nosy neighbor that’s constantly looking through their blinds and gossiping about everyone to everyone else. This is actually exactly in their wheelhouse.
Talibangelicals think all the lanes are theirs.
I wonder if this guy has ever heard of the reformation.
Someone should nail a note to his door that spells out everything wrong with what he believes and at the bottom a url to a rickroll
More like 95 feces, amirite?
Luther was a literal shit eater.
The Pope, according to Catholics, is God’s chosen mouthpiece here on Earth. The only divisions he could possibly be creating are divisions between who are faithful servants of God and who are sinners. This isn’t my opinion, it’s in the book they all claim to have read.
The pope’s infallibility isn’t really in “the book”, being a fairly recent innovation circa 1870.
Look, he’s banking on them not reading the bible and you are not helping.
Yeah it’s always fun how when these folks disagree with someone else, the pope even, it’s the other guy’s fault for the disagreement happening. As if the moral universe revolved around them and it really was as simple as if everyone agreed with me there’d be “no division”.
Also, there’s this
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There’s no infighting like church infighting. One of them has to be right, right??
Creating “division” with inclusion… yes how dare he?
Last week, Pope Francis approved a ruling at the Vatican that permitted priests to administer blessings to same-sex couples.
I don’t think so.
Edit:
This is also the understanding of marriage that is offered by the Gospel. For this reason, when it comes to blessings, the Church has the right and the duty to avoid any rite that might contradict this conviction or lead to confusion. Such is also the meaning of the Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which states that the Church does not have the power to impart blessings on unions of persons of the same sex.
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2023/12/18/0901/01963.html#en
What do you mean, you don’t think so? He did.
Arguably, the Pope has said it was always like this and hasn’t changed anything.
Which is… A tall argument to make given how many priests are pissed off about the Pope’s announcement.
Note: I am Catholic. Ama I guess, lol. But technically speaking, this is just how the Church always has been and therefore no change happened.
That’s kind of the rule in Catholicism. They don’t really believe in changing a perfect church. They just reinterpret what obviously already was sacred tradition.
Ehhh. Two Truths from St. Thomas Aquinas says otherwise. If science is true and if God doesn’t lie to us, then whatever God teaches must be compatible with science. So yes, discoveries of the scientific type force us to change our understanding of faith.
But its not like say… Gravity didn’t exist 2000 years ago or something. Earth always was a floating orb circling the sun, even if earlier Catholics didn’t believe that (just as an example). And therefore, St. Thomas Aquinas would argue the Good Catholic would change their mind and understanding of faith.
If we have two truths that contradict, then the only alternative is that our understanding of those truths is faulty.
The Church has immobile “Mysteries” that have been documented by the Council of Nicea as per our Nicene Creed. These are (in practice), the only immobile elements of our faith that remain unchanging. Most other elements and arguments of morality are (and have) changed as society has changed. None of this is new to a Catholic who has studied our history. A large element of change and improvement is built into the Church.
IE: The concept of Limbo has been removed from our faith within the lifetimes of the elders. If you want a more recent example. The indulgence thing back from Martin Luther’s days (the 1500s guy, not the 1950s guy) is also a change.
But in any case, this particular doctrine with regards to blessings of homosexuals isn’t a change on the scale of Limbo or whatever. Pope Francis is just saying that Priests are 100% absolutely allowed (and probably preferred) to bless homosexuals together, as long as the ritual isn’t confused for marriage (which is one of our deeply sacred sacraments, of which we believe has a large element of procreation / making babies).
Priests are called upon to do all kinds of blessings: house blessings, throat blessings, etc. etc. It shouldn’t be too surprising that Priests can make other blessings on the spot or invent new ones. This sort of thing (IE: Blessing of two Homosexuals) that is going on has always been part of a Priest’s power, so to speak.
Its only “confusing” to ultra-conservatives because they wanted an excuse from on-high saying that blessings of homosexuals was against our faith for some reason.
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It’s just my religion dude. Just like living and breathing to me. No big deal. I grew up and memorized this stuff.
It’s near effortless. So don’t worry about it. A lot of this stuff is just base level precanned arguments honestly.
On the other hand, imagine coming to a topic about the Pope and matters of faith and deciding to close your mind about basic facts pertaining to Catholicism. Like, what the hell are YOU doing in this topic?
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What? As a Catholic you would know the pope is a representative of Jesus Christ.
Ummm… you mean Peter, right? The Pope as an institution is derived of Jesus’s promise to Peter, and not from Jesus himself per se. Jesus is God. If God wants to do something, He needs no representative. It just happens.
It isn’t up for discussion if he decrees something
Did the Pope speak ex cathedra here?
Note: there are only a few times in the past millennia that a Pope has ever invoked ex cathedra.
What kind of bad Hollywood movie or anime did you learn Catholic values from?
EDIT: I’m just noticing now that your post is 10 days old. It looks like lemm.ee had some sync issues with lemmy.world. The server finally notified me of your response. Apologies if this is digging up an old, week old subject. But I promise it was at the top of my inbox yesterday when I responded.
This is also the understanding of marriage that is offered by the Gospel. For this reason, when it comes to blessings, the Church has the right and the duty to avoid any rite that might contradict this conviction or lead to confusion. Such is also the meaning of the Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which states that the Church does not have the power to impart blessings on unions of persons of the same sex.
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2023/12/18/0901/01963.html#en
picking the part you like and presenting it out of context. Very Christian of you.
As opposed to everyone else who is ignoring that part.
There is nuance, but people are saying things like “the pope created another kind of marriage.”
Keep reading:
Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex
When was the last time a Protestant leader had something good to say about the Pope?
