Canada expects to announce this week that all new cars will have to be zero emissions by 2035, a senior government source said, as Ottawa is set to unveil new regulations in the latest example of countries around the world pushing for electrification.

Canada to announce all new cars must be zero emissions by 2035::Canada expects to announce this week that all new cars will have to be zero emissions by 2035, a senior government source said, as Ottawa is set to unveil new regulations in the latest example of countries around the world pushing for electrification.

  • bratosch@lemm.eeEnglish
    12·
    11 months ago

    Is that no emissions at all along the cars life from production to scrap? Cus EVs today are in large just virtue vehicles.

    • jonesy@aussie.zoneEnglish
      21·
      11 months ago

      Interested to see where that data comes from, as looking at the lifetime emissions of an EV vs an ICE vehicle inclusive of fuel EVs are generally significantly lower emissions. If you’re only considering the emissions associated with the manufacture of the vehicles, EVs do result in more GHG, but very quickly once both vehicles are actually in use the benefits of EVs become apparent.

      EPA.gov

      MIT

      New York Times

      University of Technology Sydney

      Cambridge University

      • enkers@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        32·
        11 months ago

        While somewhat misguided, they do still kinda have a point: Car centric culture really does have a high environmental cost regardless of power source. Switching from ICE to EV is a good start, but we also need to address urban sprawl, and push for better mass transit as well as cycling infrastructure.

      • AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        6·
        11 months ago

        Interested to see where that data comes from, as looking at the lifetime emissions of an EV vs an ICE vehicle inclusive of fuel EVs are generally significantly lower emissions.

        I’m working from memory, but I think I have heard their claim before, and the data it is based on is probably 20 years out of date. The proportion of electricity produced by methods like solar and wind did not used to be what it is today, and the production method of electricity plays a significant role in lifecycle analysis of electric vehicles.

        The Cambridge link you provided notes that electric vehicles are not better for the environment in Poland because most of their electricity is produced by burning coal. It also compares France and the UK, and notes the difference between emissions because of the different production mix of electricity.

        Under current conditions, driving an electric car is better for the climate than conventional petrol cars in 95% of the world, the study finds.

        The only exceptions are places like Poland, where electricity generation is still mostly based on coal.

        Average lifetime emissions from electric cars are up to 70% lower than petrol cars in countries like Sweden and France (which get most of their electricity from renewables and nuclear), and around 30% lower in the UK.

        https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/electric-cars-better-for-climate-in-95-of-the-world

        • AA5B@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          11 months ago

          I believe I saw similar comparing US states, but do not have a link. The numbers I remember is 1-2 years in states with more natural gas, nuclear, and renewable energy, up to 14 years for West Virginia and Wyoming as still mostly coal

          • frezik@midwest.socialEnglish
            2·
            11 months ago

            IIRC, if you pick the worst state for power sources (W. Virginia) and the worst EV (the Hummer), you end up with a pathological combination that emits more CO2 than any ICE over its lifetime. Literally any other combination, and it’s better.

    • Franklin@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      11 months ago

      Dependable and available public transit is the answer to our transportation needs with electric vehicles substituted in areas where public transit presents implementation challenges.

      Electric cars cannot be the backbone of our system if we look to reduce emissions and environmental hazards to a level that allows us to continue existence as we know it.

      • BearOfaTime@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        11 months ago

        Hahahaha public transit.

        Have you looked at the energy/environmental costs of trains or busses?

        Hint: they both consume the same energy fully loaded or empty, as a start.

        And train infrastructure is a massive user of concrete, steel, copper, etc.

    • Fisk400@feddit.nuEnglish
      10·
      11 months ago

      Are you saying that the emission resulting from an EVs production is the same as the emission from and olds car production and lifetime of fuel usage combined?

      • bratosch@lemm.eeEnglish
        6·
        11 months ago

        Production of batteries, handling discarded batteries, breaking of minerals FOR the batteries, and producing the electricity have all been shown to be worse for the environment than than the entire life of a traditional car

        • ThenThreeMore@startrek.websiteEnglish
          17·
          11 months ago

          You got something to back that up? The last study I read (I think it was from Volvo comparing one of their EVs against the ICE version of the car) showed between 60 and 80 thousand miles (depending on the energy generation mix) was the tipping point where EVs became better.

          And that was probably about 5 years ago, there’s been a lot of significant development in EVs since then.

          • bratosch@lemm.eeEnglish
            5·
            11 months ago

            Well, please show me a trustworthy study of the difference between ICE and EV emissions per mile during their lifetime. The ones I’ve read always say “in their lifetime”, but they don’t take into account EV batteries need changing after about 10 years … And batteries are as we know the “big bad” of EVs. The absolutely only true comparison would be all emissions from all sources spread out over either per mile or per year. A combustion car can easily last 20 years, which isn’t really a fair comparison to the 10 years.

            • Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.caEnglish
              10·
              11 months ago

              Hey you made the claim in the first place, you have the burden proof. Don’t attempt to shift it.

              • BearOfaTime@lemm.eeEnglish
                2·
                11 months ago

                This article, and everying about this subject, presumes EV is better than ICE. That’s the positive claim.

                Show me the math, the studies. If it holds true, this should be easy. And, it would end the debate.

                Data trumps. If the research is so overwhelmingly in favor of EVs, let’s publish that info everywhere for people to read, study, analyze. Lots easier to convince people with the information out there, warts and all.

                • frezik@midwest.socialEnglish
                  1·
                  11 months ago

                  And, it would end the debate.

                  No, you’d hemm and haw and avoid the problem. We’ve been here before.

              • bratosch@lemm.eeEnglish
                1·
                11 months ago

                Well I claimed that I’ve not seen a study that accounts for all the different attributes at once. So there’s really nothing for me to provide?

                But if you really need it, MIT did a study in 2019 and they explicitly (in about 2 sentences) declare that they don’t take into account battery lifetime, capacity degradation over time, battery efficiency’s sensitivity to cold, the problem with disposing of depleted batteries. According to their study an EV has about 55% of the emissions of a traditional ICE of comparable size, not accounting for the aforementioned details, nor the fact that EVs replace batteries. I.e. they assume one set of batteries for the entire lifespan.

                Now, I might very well be wrong. And I probably am (judging from the down vote bombing). But I just want to see a thorough study of both types of vehicles with everything taken into account from basically drawing board to junkyard.

            • BearOfaTime@lemm.eeEnglish
              2·
              11 months ago

              Conventional ICE can last 30 years, with engine and trans rebuild, which is trivial from a materials standpoint.

              We have multiple 30 year old ICE vehicles that still get 30mpg, have air conditioning and unlimited heat.

              EV will never compete with that unless we find new ways to make batteries.

        • Fisk400@feddit.nuEnglish
          12·
          11 months ago

          No calculation I hage ever read has ever shown that. There is an initial increase of emission from the new cars production, which is why there are discussion about retrofitting existing cars, but even if we never improve our battery technology there is a dramatic gain in lowered emissions.

    • bobgusford@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      11 months ago

      Carbon tax deals with industries that creates emissions by taxing the fuels that cause the emissions. All businesses involved in making EVs and EV parts can choose between using taxed GhG-emitting fuels, or non-taxed cheaper renewable sources. Free markets will pick the winner, but at least all winners will be producing EVs only.