• ExLisper@linux.community
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    1 year ago

    Unpopular opinion: all “fun” cars should be banned from public roads. You think driving is “fun”? Go to a racing track and have fun there. When I’m commuting I want to get to work safely, that’s my only objective. I don’t want to share the road with an idiot who thinks he’s the next Schumacher and can drive safely at 150km/h. All cars should have speed limiters installed. Why can they drive faster then the national speed limit at all? It makes no sense. You want to race? Put your racing car on a flat bet and carry it to the racetrack, I don’t care. The idea that driving is “fun” is cancer that killed more people than… well, real cancer. Shows like Top Gear that promote this idea are responsible for more deaths than Nazis.

    Edit: Ok, I was wrong, cancer kills more people. Bad example. 1.3M people die in car accidents every year. Speeding is the second most common cause. Just think about another example like guns or something.

    • nomad@infosec.pub
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      1 year ago

      I know people in the US get their license in a few days. But in europe people take a proper course over a few weeks and drive dafely and routinely at speeds up to 200 km/h. Not that I disagree with the fun part.

      • whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        200kmh is never really safe, I hope that everyone driving at that speed realize it, of course we feel safe in those new cars, it’s like nothing, but a flat tire or something else and it’s done for you

        And I don’t think every country in Europe have proper training, in France people are not that disciplined as in other part of Europe

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, I’m sure they can drive safely at 200km/h at a race track. There’s no way to drive safely above the speed limit on a public road.

        • Auk@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          There’s no way to drive safely above the speed limit on a public road.

          If you’re driving a well maintained regular car in good conditions you absolutely can drive safely above many speed limits. If the speed limit was set at the true limit of safety nothing but the best handling vehicles in the best of conditions could drive at said limit safely, and this is clearly not the case for the vast majority of speed limits. Instead most traffic can travel safely at the set speed limit in less than ideal vehicles and in less than ideal conditions, so logically there are going to be situations where it would be safe to drive above said limit.

          Consider too speed limit changes. In my area there have been a few roads recently which have been lowered from 100km/h limits to 80km/h. Nothing changed about these roads except the speed limit signs. Why was it possible to drive safely at the 100km/h limit one day but not possible to drive safely at the same speed on the next day? Another road several years back had its speed limit changed from 80km/h to 90km/h. Again only the signs changed, so why would it be unsafe to drive 90km/h there one day when that would be the speed limit the following day?

          • ExLisper@linux.community
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            1 year ago

            I hate people like you on the roads. You’re not the one who decides what’s the safe maximum speed on the road is. If you think you can arbitrary decide that some speed limit is too low and you can drive faster you’re wrong and shouldn’t be on the road at all. If we had less people like you on the roads everyone would be safer.

            • Auk@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              If speed limits are indeed set at the true safe maximum for all vehicles and all conditions then how can you travel safely at said speed limits in your car, which I would wager cannot corner as well or stop as quickly as a top end sports car?

              • ExLisper@linux.community
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                1 year ago

                I’m not saying all speed limits are set perfectly. I’m saying it’s not up to you to decide which ones are ‘safe’ to break. The driver that think they know better than everyone else are the most dangerous ones. Even if you think the limit is set tol low just follow it, ok? Is it so hard?

                • Auk@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Say that to start off with then rather than “there’s no way to drive safely above the speed limit on a public road”, because there clearly are roads where it can be safe to drive above the speed limit.

                  • ExLisper@linux.community
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                    1 year ago

                    Great, as long as we agree you should never drive above the speed limit I can agree that there definitely are some roads where the speed limit is set below the maximum safe speed.

              • Quasari@programming.dev
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                1 year ago

                If it’s a maximum limit to what’s safe, you can say anything at or below it is safe. They don’t set the maximum at a value that is unsafe for some vehicles.

                • Auk@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Indeed, at least for most modern speed limits. That was intended as more of a rhetorical question to lead the person I was replying to towards noticing speed limits are typically set with a wide safety margin, and not actually at the limit of what can be safe in good conditions.

          • emptiestplace@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            As with everything we do, there is a subjective element to setting limits, but it’s definitely not as arbitrary as you are suggesting. Maybe they reduced one limit because there were too many accidents, and maybe they increased the other because they finally got the signal pattern working as intended.

            Risk assessment is incredibly complex. It might be perfectly reasonable to drive 110km/h on a given road most of the time, but frequent use by large farm equipment could necessitate a lower speed. Or, maybe adjusting traffic on road x decreases accidents on road y.

            We are still learning how to produce vehicles that reliably compensate for variables like friction, or human reaction time. The implications of even these two simple things seem to be completely lost on most drivers: with a tiny bit of rubber touching the asphalt, we happily drive around in inconceivably heavy vehicles at rates where it’s very easy for an event to begin and end before we even suspect something is imminent.

            While I’m here: turn your lights on when you start your car, turn into your own fucking lane, always move over if someone is behind you in the fast lane even if you think you’re going “fast enough” (someone could be bleeding out, seriously), don’t pass people on the wrong side, and finally: stop trusting the meat in your head so much, our brains fuck up all the time, so in addition to driving defensively wrt external factors, consider how you can set yourself up to succeed if something unexpected happens internally.

        • nomad@infosec.pub
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          1 year ago

          There are a lot of streets without a speed limit in europe. People are told to drive around at least 130 to not hinder traffic. Most people go about 140 or 150 if the roads are free. Speed lane is usually about 160

          • ExLisper@linux.community
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            1 year ago

            No, not a lot, only highways in Germany AFAIK. Where I live the limit is 120 so 150 is always over the limit. Road fatalities in Germany are the same as in my country because in Germany you also have idiots driving 200km/h. What you have to do is adjust your speed to the conditions. Depending on how the roads are build the limit will be different but if you’re driving 50km/h faster than everyone else you’re creating dangerous situation. Same if you’re driving too slow obviously.

    • ElPussyKangaroo@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The idea that driving is “fun” is cancer that killed more people than… well, real cancer. Shows like Top Gear that promote this idea are responsible for more deaths than Nazis.

      I was with you right up until here. There’s no way to upvote and downvote different parts of a comment, is there?

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        1 year ago

        Ok, I was wrong, cancer kills more people than speeding. But 1.3 million die every year in traffic accidents and the second most common cause of accidents is speeding. Or do you think that shows like Top Gear and magazines promoting the idea that “fast cars are awesome” do not promote speeding?

        • ElPussyKangaroo@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          So, here’s the thing…

          Speeding is definitely the culprit. But accidents due to speeding have been an issue long before shows like Top Gear ever happened.

          The issue is terrible drivers. Fast cars or Horse Carriages, doesn’t matter.

          I agree with your remark about keeping cars that can do more than the speed limit off the public roads, but sadly that won’t solve accidents due to speeding. Because that’s just one of the reasons.

          • ExLisper@linux.community
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            1 year ago

            Top Gear is just an example. Everyone loves them but I think shows like this, and they specifically, cause of a lot of harm to many people.

            • ElPussyKangaroo@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I understand what you mean, but that’s not really true.

              This is the Television equivalent of “Video Games cause kids to be violent”. If the kid was mentally unstable and needed help without the game, the game is the least of the parents’ worries.

              Same here. If the person was incapable of following rules and abiding by basic decency standards, then they will be reckless with or without such shows. Classic example: lots of small city residents of India have never seen Top Gear or any such show. Yet the quality of driving is terrible. I say this as a native resident of India.

              Reason: driving tests are not enforced well enough.

              • ExLisper@linux.community
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                1 year ago

                Reckless driving is not the same as bad quality driving. For example I knew a guy once who said that he never knew who has to yield at a intersection so would always stop and let the other guy go. Was he a good driver? No. Was his behavior going to kill someone? Also no. A driver that knows he has the right of way and drives through a roundabout at 100km/h maybe a better driver but has higher chance of killing someone.

                As to TV shows and automotive press I think they invested or at least are actively promoting the idea that driving fast is ‘sexy’. It’s really hard to watch Top Gear and not to get the idea that what they are selling is the idea that driving a Ferrari at 200km/h is exciting. It would one thing it they showed it strictly in the context of a racetrack and professional competition but they are constantly mixing it with every day driving. The are saying that all driving can be exiting. Why we don’t do this with other sports? Downhill cycling is existing but you don’t see a lot of people jumping down the stairs on their way to work. Why with other sports we clearly separate the sport activity and everyday version of it but with driving the idea is that public roads are extensions of race tracks and a good driver can have fun on both? I blame the shows romanticizing fast cars as something desirable by everyone and driving as a skill every real man should master. The effects we see on the roads every day.

    • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      Driving can be “fun” in any car though. You don’t need a sports car to enjoy driving, for some driving is just a fun activity that can still be done safely and within the regulations of the road.

      The idea that driving is “fun” is cancer that killed more people than… well, real cancer.

      You’ve literally just made this up.

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, I did. I though more people die in car accidents but I’ve checked the number and no.

        Also, If you enjoy driving below the speed limit and without any sudden manoeuvres then I have no issue with you enjoying your ride. I think it’s obvious that’s not what I have issue with.

    • Kokesh@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Anyone here actually watched the “Top Gear”? After real Top Gear was cancelled, it was unwatchable. The Grand Tour was good, but the first series was quite stupid. Speeeeeeeed!

      • HeavyRaptor@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        I don’t know why you’re getting down voted. Post-Clarkson Top Gear is horrendous. The Grand Tour has its own issues but also some very fun moments.

      • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        The latest trio were pretty decent, probably the best since the Clarkson, Hammond & May era.

          • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            Yeah Chris Evans was the worst. LeBlanc was ok but I didn’t get the hype that he had by others.

    • DarylDutch@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I love driving my 34 year old car. It only goes 140km/h max and that is fine for it. I consider it a fun car as well even though it has the reputation of being a shopping trolley for old people. I can’t see where you would would draw the line of fun car and what that would do for road safety. Most crashes tend to happen at intersections because of inattentive drivers or confusing situations. This behavior is promoted by a sense of perceived safety which people get from a “self driving” car. If I could snap my fingers and apply a ban on a car type it would be suv’s without a doubt. Big cars in general also give that sense of safety which is somewhat true for the people in it but they kill more people involved in crashes with them. Now for your last point about Top Gear. Quite a strong opinion which I do not agree with. They tend to close roads to do their scenes. If you ever go to one of those beautiful roads you will find out that they are very popular and the speed limit cannot even be met. In conclusion, make cars small again.

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        1 year ago

        Ok, and when I have to take over someone please drive 1m behind me and flash your lights at me. It the least you can do.