• exception4289@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    I’m not sure what’s the definition of mass murder but advancing in a city/place and start killing indiscriminately sounds a lot like it.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Yes but I’m saying that didn’t happen to my knowledge. From what we know so far about the attack, the IDF response was far from careful not to harm civilians, and in some cases chose to actively kill hostages to get the Hamas soldiers who captured them.

      Israel so far hasn’t done anything close to releasing the number of people who died to IDF fire, or just in the crossfire between Hamas and the IDF, and until they do that they have no grounds to claim Hamas committed mass murder.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      ~ 1/3 military kills is definitely not “indiscriminately killing”. These numbers change everything.

      It’s not a mass murder anymore. Oct7 was a justified targeted retaliation.

      • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        67% civilian casualties is a universally abhorrent figure, and shows a complete disregard for the value of innocent human lives.

        Also, mass murder is generally defined as the killing of 3 or more persons at a time. Not exactly a high bar.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          My man you better not start reading about American civilian casualty figures. And ESPECIALLY not about israel ones.

          Also most israeli civilians are IDF reservists so they are in fact uncounted soldiers. The IDF just called up 300.000 “innocent civilians” to commit genocide in Gaza? lmao.

          The best number is how little children were killed in compared to the total amount of people.

          • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            My man you better not start reading about American civilian casualty figures. And ESPECIALLY not about israel ones.

            Let me guess, I would find more universally abhorrent figures? What exactly do you think “universally” means?

            Also most israeli civilians are IDF reservists

            Where the fuck did you get that from?

              • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                I don’t follow your argument. So civilians that go through compulsory military service are not civilians? Korea, Vietnam, and Denmark have basically no civilian population? Or is it wartime conscription that you have a problem with? Is every American citizen an attack target because they theoretically could be conscripted as a response to the attack?

                • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  If they are IDF conscripts they’re not civilians. Don’t even dare to compare israeli colonists to Koreans.

                  If people went into Hamas military service and become a “Hamas reservist” then you wouldn’t even doubt to call those people terrorists.

                  There are actual israelis that rejected IDF service and even people that advocates for peace that were killed which is very sad. But the majority are military.

                  • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    If they are IDF conscripts they’re not civilians. Don’t even dare to compare israeli colonists to Koreans.

                    Hah, why not? Their conscription system works the same way, if you haven’t noticed.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          67% civilian casualties is a universally abhorrent figure

          Is it? I mean civilians getting killed is bad no matter the number, and I’m not denying Hamas soldiers committed war crimes, but for example in Iraq the US coalition’s percentage was 77%.

          • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Because everyone is so happy that Iraq happened? Here, fixed:

            77% civilian casualties is also a universally abhorrent figure

              • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Ah, I see what you’re saying now. Unfortunately yes, 67% it isn’t particularly out of the ordinary. Perhaps I’m in a bit of a bubble, but I think/hope the vast majority of people consider this historical “normal” to be “abhorrent” these days. Such would be a positive change for society.

                Perhaps I should also clarify that by “universal”, I don’t mean “everyone agrees”, but rather “regardless of the circumstances”. I included this to suggest that I think the civilian casualty rate in Palestine is also abhorrent, and I don’t think the October 7 attacks justify it in the slightest.

                • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                  11 months ago

                  Perhaps I’m in a bit of a bubble, but I think/hope the vast majority of people consider this historical “normal” to be “abhorrent” these days.

                  That’s true. Normally I’d talk about not even close to all the civilian casualties are Hamas-inflicted, but mostly I wanted to point out that the popular Israeli narrative of “they entered our villages and indiscriminately killed our people in a brutal terrorist attack” is wrong even going by the 67% alone.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Justified retaliation, and an operation meant to get concessions out of Israel for Gazans. That’s why they took the hostages.