Yes, it’s the people who are protesting the thing that are wrong, down with them. Jail is too good for them, I saw on the news that five people were a little bit late to work that day, so obviously, we can’t stand them.
Maybe you should stomach some of this contempt for the oil companies.
Just so you are aware, there are people who believe Just Stop Oil is intentionally trying to make climate activists look bad because some of their funds come from a member of the Getty family. I first became aware of the conspiracy theory when they threw soup on that painting. I do not have the opinion that they demonstrate behavior that is significantly worse than any other group.
I fund climate activism – and I applaud the Van Gogh protest
Aileen Getty
The Just Stop Oil protest shocked the world, but we must take disruptive action on the climate crisis before it’s too late
…
I am the daughter of a famous family who built their fortune on fossil fuels – but we now know that the extraction and use of fossil fuels is killing life on our planet. Our family sold that company four decades ago, and I instead vowed to use my resources to take every means to protect life on Earth.
People often come up with theories about my motivation to engage in the climate movement. My motivation is clear: I am fighting for a livable planet for my family and yours. I am not dwelling on the past. I am looking to build a better future.
There’s nothing you can say or do to make climate activism palatable to those people. It’s best to ignore them, and steamroll them where it counts. The best revenge against them is stopping fossil fuels, and living well.
Just FYI, an electric car isn’t environmentally friendly, a brand new electric vehicle is worse than using a second hand diesel car.
What we need to do is build working and viable public transport and to stop cancelling massive projects so the Tories can throw the cash at their mates.
Whilst absolutely true for the short term, the ‘lifetime’ emissions of a EV can be up to 70% lower than petrol cars in countries with renewable electricity, or 30% lower in the UK now with its mixed power generation.
Yes, if everyone switched to a EV today, the environmental impact would be immense due to manufacturing. But if they switched to it after their current ICE vehicle usable life has expired, longterm it would be better for the environment.
If everyone switched to an EV today, the electric grid would collapse and there would be mass catastrophe.
These protesters have a good point but they are extremely short sighted. We simply cannot just stop oil. We can slowly phase out oil usage, which is what most major economies are doing. Which is why these protesters look like clowns to anyone paying any attention at all.
If you go to the just stop oil website, they are very clearly talking about stopping all new contracts, not existing ones. It’s perfectly possible to achieve this.
…but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action‘ …
Or you could say these protestors are regularly getting in headlines, showing that there’s an escalating culture of absolute rejection of social mores so long as major, vital changes don’t happen. Creating serious problems for bureaucrats and elected officials that forces a response that often makes those officials and bureaucrats look like assholes.
The protests are factually inconveniencing and causing problems for people that have the influence to get policy changed, at least so long as democracy is functional. You aren’t going to be able to protest an oil magnate. They are not accessible for protest.
Your thesis is that people will vote against climate protestors just because they were late getting to work one day. If that’s correct, we may as well get out the Flavor-Aid because this world’s beyond saving. Everyone needs to be reminded and thinking about this crisis. Every day. It needs to be front and center. Time is running out. We have the solutions needed to avoid catastrophe, but too many are simply not aware and thinking about how terrible the danger is and need daily reminding.
We seem to be forgetting that protests once involved burning down neighborhoods and executing rulers. Which really is what we should be doing, given the enormity of the problem. This is a more civil compromise. Don’t buy into the media powers that want to turn you against anyone expressing discontent.
If the Earth Day protests happened today, the media narrative around them would be “Look at all these fuckers, on the streets, stopping me from getting to the gas station to buy a Slim Jim!” It’s fucked. The attitude is fucked.
They’re not specifically targeting their protests to inconvenience the influencers, politicians or industries supporting the licensing of Big Oil. The majority targets making a large spectacle, with a significant amounts of criminal damage - something to become news-worthy.
Not once have I seen them promote alternative policy changes for oil & gas use. They’re also not promoting projects dealing with climate change.
They’re certainly getting exposure, but they’re not winning the public vote. I agree with their cause, but I despise their methods.
Ah, more ways you aren’t allowed to protest to add to the list.
You aren’t allowed to protest unless the protest only affects the Officially Designated List (ODL) of “influencers”, politicians, or industries. Other people affected by protests is unacceptable.
Democratic action cannot be a goal of protest. Protest must only be targeted to inconvenience bad guys (see ODL) and nothing else.
Protests must not cause spectacle. The must be subdued, quiet, and easily ignored.
Protestors must always be of a positive nature; only protests that have specific solutions and plans of actions are allowed. Protesting against things is unacceptable, you must only protest FOR things.
Protest that involves property crime must be entirely shut down, permanently, with the entire organization tarred and feathered. ESPECIALLY if the property crime was throwing soup at a museum painting that was fully-sealed behind glass and totally protected. Protecting fine art matters more than keeping our civilization running.
Let me know if you’ve got more Unacceptable Protest Options (UPOs). I’ll maintain the list for you.
The time and effort you put into typing this comment, would have been better spent discussing the more important, relevant and dangerous issues you can find simply in the headline. 1- big oil has our politicians in their pockets. 2- The UK government is putting people in jail for protesting, not rioting. And so what if you’re late for work? Are you so overpaid that you prioritize getting to the office on time over a protest to avoid planetary genocide? Turn off your car and join the march!!
The time and effort you put into typing this comment would have been better spent overthrowing your corrupt government and replacing it with an incorruptible one. Or at least a less corrupt one.
Ah, but why do that when you can scold random people on the internet for not joining a protest you admit is pointless?
And is it not pointless to protest when the government is corrupt? They will not care after all since they’re in someone’s pocket…
Look around the world and say how many protests against corrupt, tyrannical governments actually work instead of being squashed into silent submission?
Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t do something about it, but to do something that actually works instead of just walking down the street with a sign and then calling it a day once you’ve pissed off enough people.
Agreed they should show up to the oil executives houses drag their families out in the street and hang them from the streetlights from shortest to tallest.
What are they going to do put them in prison? The same thing they do for a slow walking.
The only people who fall for this propaganda from upholders of the status quo are ignorant of history. Here’s a quote from Martin Luther King that I think is very relevant:
First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
There’s a major donor who’s the daughter of a family who’s previous generation made money on fossil fuels and has since divested and wants to distance themselves. Based on the fact that it is now clear how utterly destructive fossil fuels are.
Conservatives / climate deniers use some parts of this fact as part of a campaign to discredit the organization and keep the media narrative around these protests on “oh, this style of protest does not match my aesthetics so it must be bad” instead of “the climate is on fire and the perpetrators are getting rich doing it and we should ALL be in the streets making noise and inconveniencing people until something is done.”
@Ilovethebomb@RightHandOfIkaros The higher level politicians are better defended. It is often necessary to strike at targets that are both high value and soft. For every general secure in their fortress there are a dozen war profiteers just begging to be dragged to the front to clear their own mines.
@Ilovethebomb The big multinational oil companies ARE-and their execs and those of their major stockholders have names and addresses.
Since peaceful protests are getting so much whining about an obstruction less than that created by a minor functionary’s motorcade and now prosecution, I suggested targetting those execs personally as we did over HLS. Tell Shell etc to “Ask the FBI about Huntingdon Life Sciences”(they are US based but have offices globally).
These people keep causing problems and inconveniencing everyone except the people that actually have the influence to do what they want.
The only thing they have accomplished is making “Just Stop” people look like clowns, and making everyone else dislike them and their message.
Just Stop Oil activists are among the worlds ultimate clowns.
Yes, it’s the people who are protesting the thing that are wrong, down with them. Jail is too good for them, I saw on the news that five people were a little bit late to work that day, so obviously, we can’t stand them.
Maybe you should stomach some of this contempt for the oil companies.
Just so you are aware, there are people who believe Just Stop Oil is intentionally trying to make climate activists look bad because some of their funds come from a member of the Getty family. I first became aware of the conspiracy theory when they threw soup on that painting. I do not have the opinion that they demonstrate behavior that is significantly worse than any other group.
-https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/22/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-national-gallery-aileen-getty
There’s nothing you can say or do to make climate activism palatable to those people. It’s best to ignore them, and steamroll them where it counts. The best revenge against them is stopping fossil fuels, and living well.
Also saw the news about blocking an ambulance and firetruck. Also blocking the road to the hospital… Putting lives in danger
https://news.sky.com/story/emergency-vehicles-blocked-by-just-stop-oil-protest-in-west-london-rush-hour-12717957
https://metro.co.uk/2023/07/21/furious-mum-shouts-my-baby-needs-to-go-to-hospital-at-just-stop-oil-activists-19168421/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/21/just-stop-oil-have-blood-hands-woman-dies-dartford-protest/
They were blocking electric cars Isn’t that kinda bad messaging?
Just FYI, an electric car isn’t environmentally friendly, a brand new electric vehicle is worse than using a second hand diesel car.
What we need to do is build working and viable public transport and to stop cancelling massive projects so the Tories can throw the cash at their mates.
Whilst absolutely true for the short term, the ‘lifetime’ emissions of a EV can be up to 70% lower than petrol cars in countries with renewable electricity, or 30% lower in the UK now with its mixed power generation.
Yes, if everyone switched to a EV today, the environmental impact would be immense due to manufacturing. But if they switched to it after their current ICE vehicle usable life has expired, longterm it would be better for the environment.
If everyone switched to an EV today, the electric grid would collapse and there would be mass catastrophe.
These protesters have a good point but they are extremely short sighted. We simply cannot just stop oil. We can slowly phase out oil usage, which is what most major economies are doing. Which is why these protesters look like clowns to anyone paying any attention at all.
If you go to the just stop oil website, they are very clearly talking about stopping all new contracts, not existing ones. It’s perfectly possible to achieve this.
The whole of “stop oil” is about stopping “oil, gas or coal” use.
it’s true it does take quite a lot emissions to build one. However in the long run it’s much better.
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars
https://www.entergynewsroom.com/article/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-environment/
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html
https://blog.evbox.com/are-ev-batteries-recyclable
Thank you, this is exactly what’s going on.
Or you could say these protestors are regularly getting in headlines, showing that there’s an escalating culture of absolute rejection of social mores so long as major, vital changes don’t happen. Creating serious problems for bureaucrats and elected officials that forces a response that often makes those officials and bureaucrats look like assholes.
The protests are factually inconveniencing and causing problems for people that have the influence to get policy changed, at least so long as democracy is functional. You aren’t going to be able to protest an oil magnate. They are not accessible for protest.
Your thesis is that people will vote against climate protestors just because they were late getting to work one day. If that’s correct, we may as well get out the Flavor-Aid because this world’s beyond saving. Everyone needs to be reminded and thinking about this crisis. Every day. It needs to be front and center. Time is running out. We have the solutions needed to avoid catastrophe, but too many are simply not aware and thinking about how terrible the danger is and need daily reminding.
We seem to be forgetting that protests once involved burning down neighborhoods and executing rulers. Which really is what we should be doing, given the enormity of the problem. This is a more civil compromise. Don’t buy into the media powers that want to turn you against anyone expressing discontent.
If the Earth Day protests happened today, the media narrative around them would be “Look at all these fuckers, on the streets, stopping me from getting to the gas station to buy a Slim Jim!” It’s fucked. The attitude is fucked.
They’re not specifically targeting their protests to inconvenience the influencers, politicians or industries supporting the licensing of Big Oil. The majority targets making a large spectacle, with a significant amounts of criminal damage - something to become news-worthy.
Not once have I seen them promote alternative policy changes for oil & gas use. They’re also not promoting projects dealing with climate change.
They’re certainly getting exposure, but they’re not winning the public vote. I agree with their cause, but I despise their methods.
Ah, more ways you aren’t allowed to protest to add to the list.
Let me know if you’ve got more Unacceptable Protest Options (UPOs). I’ll maintain the list for you.
The time and effort you put into typing this comment, would have been better spent discussing the more important, relevant and dangerous issues you can find simply in the headline. 1- big oil has our politicians in their pockets. 2- The UK government is putting people in jail for protesting, not rioting. And so what if you’re late for work? Are you so overpaid that you prioritize getting to the office on time over a protest to avoid planetary genocide? Turn off your car and join the march!!
The time and effort you put into typing this comment would have been better spent overthrowing your corrupt government and replacing it with an incorruptible one. Or at least a less corrupt one.
Ah, but why do that when you can scold random people on the internet for not joining a protest you admit is pointless?
And is it not pointless to protest when the government is corrupt? They will not care after all since they’re in someone’s pocket…
Look around the world and say how many protests against corrupt, tyrannical governments actually work instead of being squashed into silent submission?
Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t do something about it, but to do something that actually works instead of just walking down the street with a sign and then calling it a day once you’ve pissed off enough people.
I did achieve something through protest: pushing out an invading army. Beirut 2005. But please tell me more about your inconveniences.
mic drop
Bravo, friend!
Why’d you stop there, then?
Because he lives in Beirut, not London?
Agreed they should show up to the oil executives houses drag their families out in the street and hang them from the streetlights from shortest to tallest.
What are they going to do put them in prison? The same thing they do for a slow walking.
No need to involve the families. Just take the executives out back.
Those aren’t children. They’re heirs.
I’d actually respect that more than what they are currently doing.
They did attack trucks at oil refineries. Do you know what the lasting impact was? Nothing. It didn’t even make the news.
Do you realize they blocked the road in front of an oil refinery before this?
The only people who fall for this propaganda from upholders of the status quo are ignorant of history. Here’s a quote from Martin Luther King that I think is very relevant:
They are bankrolled by fossil fuel groups, right ?
No, that’s basically misinformation.
There’s a major donor who’s the daughter of a family who’s previous generation made money on fossil fuels and has since divested and wants to distance themselves. Based on the fact that it is now clear how utterly destructive fossil fuels are.
Conservatives / climate deniers use some parts of this fact as part of a campaign to discredit the organization and keep the media narrative around these protests on “oh, this style of protest does not match my aesthetics so it must be bad” instead of “the climate is on fire and the perpetrators are getting rich doing it and we should ALL be in the streets making noise and inconveniencing people until something is done.”
You’re quite right, they never go after the politicians, or anyone with actual power. It’s always the average guy that ends up copping it.
@Ilovethebomb @RightHandOfIkaros The higher level politicians are better defended. It is often necessary to strike at targets that are both high value and soft. For every general secure in their fortress there are a dozen war profiteers just begging to be dragged to the front to clear their own mines.
People driving to work aren’t the enemy.
Why not?
@Ilovethebomb The big multinational oil companies ARE-and their execs and those of their major stockholders have names and addresses.
Since peaceful protests are getting so much whining about an obstruction less than that created by a minor functionary’s motorcade and now prosecution, I suggested targetting those execs personally as we did over HLS. Tell Shell etc to “Ask the FBI about Huntingdon Life Sciences”(they are US based but have offices globally).
I would respect that a lot more than what they’re currently doing.
They go after politicians and people with actual power all the time. You ignored it because it didn’t inconvenience you.
Like when?
Like when they blocked the road in front of the oil refinery.
OK, fair enough.
Every-time this is said I always think of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gje3HiouzvQ