The problem here is that this research works from a Capitalist understanding of responsibility. That is to say that Besos is responsible for the emissions of Amazon, musk for space x, etc. Which means absolutely nothing. It’s a bullshit number.
I don’t really have knowledge nor control over how green Amazon’s delivery is. If you shift responsibility to a party that cannot make well-informed decisions, you kind of end up with the mess we currently have, no?
The whole idea of money not having a memory is a huge scheme of capitalists to get out of any kind of responsibility.
Amazon has the best logistics infrastructure of any company in the world. It is literally the most efficient system of moving goods ever known to mankind.
You are responsible for the carbon footprint of things you purchase, yes. This is why things like carbon taxes with dividends are such good ideas.
You are the person to set in motion the apparatus necessary to accomplish the task that you wanted to be accomplished.
Yes you live in this late stage capitalist hellscape with the rest of us, but that doesn’t absolve you from being critical and making the best decisions in it.
The point is that the decision can’t be good because no company discloses the environmental impact of a single product. So even if I had choices, I can only choose based on price. My only hope is that efficient logistics are also cheaper and better for the environment.
Yes as an overarching critique that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. My problem is that this doesn’t absolve us from our responsibility. If choice A leaves trails of chemicals behind but costs less than B that leaves purity behind. I can definitely critique people who choose to get A.
Mainly because the other option is to choose to not consume. For example veganism doesn’t apply to what you’re saying. It’s a conscious decision based on ethical values. The same thing can be true for people who don’t use cars.
And even if there is a choice between lesser evils, it’s still a choice of consequence.
I already don’t use a car and I eat vegetarian. I’ve got the “individual choices” covered. The problem is that at some point you’re standing in the store googling every single product and their producer to find some kind of issue with it so you can’t buy it. That’s not a sustainable way to live.
Okay but this also doesn’t absolve you from your responsibility. At some point you’re going to make a decision about where your personal boundaries in weighing your options are. And if you’re not driving and eating (a lot) less animal products you’re further ahead of the curve than others. But deciding when you find things unsustainable, it is still another decision.
Most people don’t feel or don’t see a positive difference from their choice. So they let go of their responsibilities because of it. If there is no positive impact it doesn’t matter what they do, is their thinking.
While when you look in the supermarket now compared to ten years ago… Meat substitutes, vegan products, plant milks are abundant. So, things are changing, the choices people make are influential. It just isn’t immediate. But even within capitalism the market is responding to changes, from the personal choices of people like you and me. It’s slow and tedious, but things change.
Poor Besos cannot decide what and how he delivers. He just needs to deliver to anybody who posts an order on the website someone put up on the internet. Kinda like Santa?
How do I know which shop is the best? I don’t. Neoliberal fantasies only work with an informed consumer, just like democracies only work with educated voters.
That’s why you can’t make consumers responsible for the emissions the suppliers emit.
Misinformation is also out there unfortunately. Can’t believe for instance people are still debating whether plant-based diets are better for the climate or not.
That’s a mischaracterization of what it means to argue from ideology. They only have to accept the idea that ownership of the means of production means ownership of the pollution from the means of production.
Which is a. Very common and b. The only explanation through which this research makes sense without attributing malice.
The problem here is that this research works from a Capitalist understanding of responsibility. That is to say that Besos is responsible for the emissions of Amazon, musk for space x, etc. Which means absolutely nothing. It’s a bullshit number.
How else would you account for it? Am I responsible for 0.001% of Amazon’s CO2 emissions because I order sometimes from them?
Industry already decided this argument and it’s called cradle to grave.
You think you’re not?
I don’t really have knowledge nor control over how green Amazon’s delivery is. If you shift responsibility to a party that cannot make well-informed decisions, you kind of end up with the mess we currently have, no?
The whole idea of money not having a memory is a huge scheme of capitalists to get out of any kind of responsibility.
Amazon has the best logistics infrastructure of any company in the world. It is literally the most efficient system of moving goods ever known to mankind.
You are responsible for the carbon footprint of things you purchase, yes. This is why things like carbon taxes with dividends are such good ideas.
no, you’re not.
Well, you’re not, but your parents are.
Whoever actually buys the thing is.
wrong. the pollution from production is the fault of the producers. they can choose to do otherwise.
Gotta love commie logic lol
Have fun on Thanksgiving break.
You are the person to set in motion the apparatus necessary to accomplish the task that you wanted to be accomplished.
Yes you live in this late stage capitalist hellscape with the rest of us, but that doesn’t absolve you from being critical and making the best decisions in it.
The point is that the decision can’t be good because no company discloses the environmental impact of a single product. So even if I had choices, I can only choose based on price. My only hope is that efficient logistics are also cheaper and better for the environment.
deleted by creator
Yes as an overarching critique that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. My problem is that this doesn’t absolve us from our responsibility. If choice A leaves trails of chemicals behind but costs less than B that leaves purity behind. I can definitely critique people who choose to get A.
Mainly because the other option is to choose to not consume. For example veganism doesn’t apply to what you’re saying. It’s a conscious decision based on ethical values. The same thing can be true for people who don’t use cars.
And even if there is a choice between lesser evils, it’s still a choice of consequence.
I already don’t use a car and I eat vegetarian. I’ve got the “individual choices” covered. The problem is that at some point you’re standing in the store googling every single product and their producer to find some kind of issue with it so you can’t buy it. That’s not a sustainable way to live.
Okay but this also doesn’t absolve you from your responsibility. At some point you’re going to make a decision about where your personal boundaries in weighing your options are. And if you’re not driving and eating (a lot) less animal products you’re further ahead of the curve than others. But deciding when you find things unsustainable, it is still another decision.
Most people don’t feel or don’t see a positive difference from their choice. So they let go of their responsibilities because of it. If there is no positive impact it doesn’t matter what they do, is their thinking.
While when you look in the supermarket now compared to ten years ago… Meat substitutes, vegan products, plant milks are abundant. So, things are changing, the choices people make are influential. It just isn’t immediate. But even within capitalism the market is responding to changes, from the personal choices of people like you and me. It’s slow and tedious, but things change.
I think the answer is yes.
Poor Besos cannot decide what and how he delivers. He just needs to deliver to anybody who posts an order on the website someone put up on the internet. Kinda like Santa?
He can decide, and his middle managers can decide, and you can also decide by choosing to shop from somewhere else.
How do I know which shop is the best? I don’t. Neoliberal fantasies only work with an informed consumer, just like democracies only work with educated voters.
That’s why you can’t make consumers responsible for the emissions the suppliers emit.
The information is out there if you wanna find it. The truth is most people don’t care, though. That’s on us.
Misinformation is also out there unfortunately. Can’t believe for instance people are still debating whether plant-based diets are better for the climate or not.
This is absolutely a dog shit example of math, but in no way is anyone involved at all employing capitalist understandings of anything.
This entire study is a fiction designed to point the finger at a small subset of people.
Okay so you rather think they were doing it on purpose than doing from ideology. I have a bit more regard for people I guess
I think they’re arguing entirely from ideology, but that the ideology is not at all “pro capital”
That’s a mischaracterization of what it means to argue from ideology. They only have to accept the idea that ownership of the means of production means ownership of the pollution from the means of production.
Which is a. Very common and b. The only explanation through which this research makes sense without attributing malice.
The research is just bad science and sought from the start to attribute climate change to as few people as possible.
“Scientists say it’s your average joe driving to work who is killing the world” doesn’t sell.