No I am saying Hamas committed an atrocity. There is no escaping that. Throwing in spurious figures regarding Israeli competence does not alleviate that.
There are many wrong in this. It is hard to find any rights at all from any side. Ignoring all the wrongs that have been committed by both sides will not solve the issue. Parties need to recognise that shit is being, and has been done. It should not be buried with BS in a cheap effort to dilute responsibility.
And nobody said that Hamas terror acts were not an atrocity. What was instead criticised is the fact that IDF soldiers also taking their part in killing civilians there is completely and pointedly ignored.
Which you then justify with some bullshit of how it would not have happened without the Hama’s attack in the first place.
So my point stands: If you think that soldiers indiscriminately shooting civilians is to blame solely on Hamas, then police shooting civilians while trying to stop a robbing is to be blamed solely on the robber, too.
I doubt very much that it is being ignored by the families of those involved. I highly doubt that Israel will be honest regarding the facts. But again there is a huge difference between blue on blue events and deliberate murders. Or are you suggesting Israel killed civilians deliberately also?
Those civilians would not have died if Hamas had not attacked civilian areas.
And yet, by your very own bullshit IDF soldiers shooting civilians are indeed innocent because it’s all Hama’s fault.
“there is not innocent party in this conflict” is not some solve-all catchphrase to get rid of criticism. It needs to actually be applied and those soldiers need to scrutinized for what happened there.
IDF should be held to account also. I never once made excuses for the crimes of others. You want a cheap get out to deflect blame. I don’t accept that.
No, I want Isreal’s government and military to account for the things they did and not get a free pass because “BuT hAMaS”.
You however have fully eaten up the propaganda of how everyone questioning Israel is somehow magically supporting Hamas and trying to deflect from their terrorist acts. And only when you realize that your bullshit claims like
The whole reason there were any casualties is because Hamas attacked
They [Hamas] created that fog of war though.
The rest is just propaganda until you can produce data to back it up. Just stating that Israel committed blue on blue attacks is not really good enough.
don’t fly, you pay lip service to allegedly being critical of both sides, only to then instantly continuing to blame Hamas for Israel killing people.
So you want Israel to investigate errors of judgement that were made under duress. Without a doubt where errors are made then countries need to learn from them. Just remember those errors were caused by the actions of Hamas.
And, where did I say Israel supported Hamas? It is not a claim I have ever made. You are misquoting yet again to twist your narrative.
So first you lied about things you wrote in this very thread and you now you went over to intentionally misreading what I wrote to make accusations (and while I didn’t talk about Israel supporting Hamas here -maybe you are confusing things you read here with the ones on your spreadsheet of talking points-, Israels government indeed supported them financially and that’s as well documented as other things you deny)? How about you bother someone else with your crude propaganda techniques?
This very much depends if Israel can prove Hamas were using it as a base. I have seen the videos with the tunnels they have released. That still does not prove it is a base though. Hamas will state they wanted quicker access to medical supplies. Israel needs to prove fighting took place from there.
Israel has been caught tampering with/fabricating evidence more than once (remember the calendar)? If they had real evidence they’d have published it already.
Not looking like Israel is going to listen to anyone right now. Hamas only has one control point, and Iran is not looking like it is going to reign them back in. The only review will be from the people who are suffering due to their actions.
No I am saying Hamas committed an atrocity. There is no escaping that. Throwing in spurious figures regarding Israeli competence does not alleviate that.
There are many wrong in this. It is hard to find any rights at all from any side. Ignoring all the wrongs that have been committed by both sides will not solve the issue. Parties need to recognise that shit is being, and has been done. It should not be buried with BS in a cheap effort to dilute responsibility.
And nobody said that Hamas terror acts were not an atrocity. What was instead criticised is the fact that IDF soldiers also taking their part in killing civilians there is completely and pointedly ignored.
Which you then justify with some bullshit of how it would not have happened without the Hama’s attack in the first place.
So my point stands: If you think that soldiers indiscriminately shooting civilians is to blame solely on Hamas, then police shooting civilians while trying to stop a robbing is to be blamed solely on the robber, too.
I doubt very much that it is being ignored by the families of those involved. I highly doubt that Israel will be honest regarding the facts. But again there is a huge difference between blue on blue events and deliberate murders. Or are you suggesting Israel killed civilians deliberately also?
Basically both of you think the other one is trying to shift blame, when in actuality you’re trying to make sure both are blamed.
Sums up a lot of arguments over this war.
Precisely, there is no innocent party in this conflict.
And yet, by your very own bullshit IDF soldiers shooting civilians are indeed innocent because it’s all Hama’s fault.
“there is not innocent party in this conflict” is not some solve-all catchphrase to get rid of criticism. It needs to actually be applied and those soldiers need to scrutinized for what happened there.
IDF should be held to account also. I never once made excuses for the crimes of others. You want a cheap get out to deflect blame. I don’t accept that.
No, I want Isreal’s government and military to account for the things they did and not get a free pass because “BuT hAMaS”.
You however have fully eaten up the propaganda of how everyone questioning Israel is somehow magically supporting Hamas and trying to deflect from their terrorist acts. And only when you realize that your bullshit claims like
don’t fly, you pay lip service to allegedly being critical of both sides, only to then instantly continuing to blame Hamas for Israel killing people.
So you want Israel to investigate errors of judgement that were made under duress. Without a doubt where errors are made then countries need to learn from them. Just remember those errors were caused by the actions of Hamas.
And, where did I say Israel supported Hamas? It is not a claim I have ever made. You are misquoting yet again to twist your narrative.
So first you lied about things you wrote in this very thread and you now you went over to intentionally misreading what I wrote to make accusations (and while I didn’t talk about Israel supporting Hamas here -maybe you are confusing things you read here with the ones on your spreadsheet of talking points-, Israels government indeed supported them financially and that’s as well documented as other things you deny)? How about you bother someone else with your crude propaganda techniques?
/ignore
“I cannot substantiate my point so I am not talking to you.”
A pretty pathetic response. Peddle your narrative elsewhere please.
deleted by creator
This very much depends if Israel can prove Hamas were using it as a base. I have seen the videos with the tunnels they have released. That still does not prove it is a base though. Hamas will state they wanted quicker access to medical supplies. Israel needs to prove fighting took place from there.
Israel has been caught tampering with/fabricating evidence more than once (remember the calendar)? If they had real evidence they’d have published it already.
Do you expect anything else? This is why it needs an independent review. Israel’s say so alone is not enough.
There should be an independent review of both Hamas and the IDFs actions.
Not looking like Israel is going to listen to anyone right now. Hamas only has one control point, and Iran is not looking like it is going to reign them back in. The only review will be from the people who are suffering due to their actions.