Are Republicans already unironically upset that the majority of examples of misinformation are from conservative sources?
I honestly hope that isn’t true, even if left wing sources are harder to find. This is a case where I believe showing ‘both sides’ is necessary. It’s less likely that they will be duped by people on the left, but it is still possible and they need to be aware of that.
I don’t like the idea of having to provide an equal amount of examples from ‘both sides’ when that isn’t matching reality, on an issue specifically affecting one political party more than the other (or maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine, I don’t know). There are misinformation examples from probably every part of the political spectrum, but they should be exemplified proportionally. Showing the reality, which is that a majority of fake news is generated by conservative sources, is important.
Yeah, I recall someone from the BBC saying something similar when it came to covering Brexit. It would take their producers days to find a credible, coherent voice that was pro-Brexit, while the anti-Brexit folks were basically lined up to voice their reasoning. That dichotomy was never revealed to listeners and caused some strife amongst the news team as it seemed disingenuous to present both sides as equal
as it seemed disingenuous to present both sides as equal
Because it is.
and it serves no purpose but to minimize right wing political terrorism.
It shouldn’t be about who is doing it more, it should be about how to recognize propaganda. Propaganda can come from any side of the political spectrum. Saying “they do it more” doesn’t help when just trying to teach the basics.
It isn’t about who is doing it more, it’s about giving examples. Those examples have to come from somewhere, and if you aren’t cherrypicking…those examples are going to skew in one direction, which is the original complaint I was anticipating.
Literally any political messaging is propaganda, be it fake or true.
But propaganda and fake news are different things. Propaganda can be made up but it doesn’t have to be, it can be (and frequently is) entirely truthful. If there’s a class on spotting fake news, and it’s any good, it will note that distinction.
Sounds like some pro-propaganda propaganda to me.
The issue with not having this be “both sides” is some people won’t learn from it if they feel targeted. However, those are also the people who need it most. They need to learn to recognize bad media, and then when they actually go to apply it they’ll realize how bad most of the stuff on the right is.
It exists. Just show the kids dumb tankie stuff and let them deconstruct it.
The problem is that we’ve gotten so far from the middle that it’s going to take a generation to wrangle it (reasonable intellectual debate) back. If you’re giving equal opportunity to both sides, you’ll need time for lengthy debates to resolve in an acceptably neutral manner.
The “truth” used to be within arm’s reach. Reasonable discussion could be had from either side of an issue. Today, you’ve got two parties (regardless of politics) who appear to maybe be commenting on the same topic but it’s like they’re on different planets now. Few people, including you and I right this moment, take enough time to engage in the original conversation and instead inject their narrative into something unrelated.
The internet has allowed everyone with an opinion to barf it all over the place while their lemmings lick it up and regurgitate the same cold greasy pizza. This (literally, this comment) distracts from the topic at hand and diverts people to engage in things that infrequently mean anything at all.
This really comes down to responsible journalism. It seems to me that responsible journalism, and “equal time for both sides”, can’t proliferate in a world driven by hits of dopamine on social media. What schools should be teaching is how to avoid addiction, how to strengthen your attention span, how to find the time and the value in reading long form articles, and how to deeply decipher propaganda.
Edit: in related news… “ Americans flock to TikTok for news ” https://www.axios.com/2023/11/15/tiktok-social-media-news-source-us-data
The share of TikTok users who consume news through the platform has nearly doubled since 2020, according to new Pew Research Center data.
Why it matters: News organizations, business leaders and brands are being forced to evolve and meet audiences where they are in order to break through.
What’s happening: The Pew study shows that news consumers have accelerated their shift toward digital channels in the past year.
Americans are roughly twice as likely to say they prefer getting news on digital devices (58%) than television (27%). Meanwhile, audience preference for radio and print media remains roughly stagnant at 6% and 5% respectively.
State of play: Roughly half of Americans say they get some news from social media platforms.
News audiences are increasing the most on TikTok and Instagram. Platforms like LinkedIn, Twitch and Nextdoor are also gaining traction as news sources.
Yeah the fairness doctrine would help
It doesn’t answer your question completely, but apparently conservatives are more likley to belive fake news.
Here is a quote from a study with a lot of links to related works.
In particular, Grinberg, Joseph, Friedland, Swire-Thompson, and Lazer [[42], p. 374] found that “individuals most likely to engage with fake news sources were conservative leaning.” Indeed, political bias can be a more important predictor of fake news believability than conspiracy mentality [43] despite conspirational predispositions playing a key role in motivated reasoning [44]. Perhaps because of this, an important body of research has examined whether conservatism influences fake news believability [45,46]. Tellingly, Robertson, Mourão, and Thorson [47] found that in the US liberal news consumers were more aware and amenable to fact-checking sites, whereas conservatives saw them as less positive as well as less useful to them, which might be why conservative SM users are more likely to confuse bots with humans, while liberal SM users tend to confuse humans with bots [48]. In particular, those who may arguably belong to the loud, populist and extremist minority wherein “1% of individuals accounted for 80% of fake news source exposures, and 0.1% accounted for nearly 80% of fake news sources shared” ([42], p. 374).
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378720622001537#bib0045
This is an example of something to be careful with. Reading random studies you find on news sites that are outside your area of expertise is an easy way to be led to believe something based only on parts of the truth.
In this case, as in many, we have to rein in our judgments for what the study indicates. Just because it says it found A doesn’t mean B is true.
Reading random studies
I searched for related studies and found this one relevant. That is not random.
you find on news sites
It’s from a scientific journal tough, not a new site?
that are outside your area of expertise
While true, this is not a study about biology or medicine. It’s not hard to understand for lay people.
an easy way to be led to believe something based only on parts of the truth.
That’s why you read more then one study. You know, like I specifically called out that this one links to a lot of related work?
In this case, as in many, we have to rein in our judgments for what the study indicates
It indicates that republicans are more likley to belive fake news.
Just because it says it found A doesn’t mean B is true.
Yes, but nobody did that here? I’m confused what you are getting at.
TLDR: check your ego, it’s not about you. you apply media literacy to my comment instead of the article you shared, but maybe there’s something else going on. stop trying to protect your ego and just recognize the “good points”. any pissed off tone you get from me in this message is just me flabbergasted that you responded so defensively. we’re cool otherwise.
and to be clear, I think conservatives ARE fucking morons, but that prejudice is exactly why this kind of study is the perfect example of when we need media literacy.
It’s from a scientific journal tough, not a new site?
I didn’t say YOU found it in a news site. but these kinds of studies always pop up on Science subreddits. someone posting any study with little to no context is where manipulation begins.
While true, this is not a study about biology or medicine. It’s not hard to understand for lay people.
Overconfidence is the FUCKING HEART of this issue. You dont know what you dont know, but you want to think you do. That’s true for all of us. Have you ever had to review a study’s methodology in grad school? Do you know what resources to check to determine if a study is adequately peer reviewed, and by whom? if someone says No to these, there’s a bigger risk of manipulation. There’s always more to learn.
That’s why you read more then one study.
YOU ONLY LINKED ONE. How many people here are going to go through finding evidence to the contrary when this supports their bias already?? Maybe a few but not a lot! Telling people to read more is great, BUT DID YOU? How many others reading this even clicked your link, let alone the follow ups? Id be shocked if it’s more than a couple of people. We make the conclusions we want to make.
Just because it says it found A doesn’t mean B is true.
Yes, but nobody did that here? I’m confused what you are getting at.
I understand that. I’m not saying anyone did do that. I’m saying it’s a risk. Yes, conservatives might believe more fake news. But the study cannot tell us why that is, only that it is. People love to fill in the gaps.
Fuck me, it’s a comment on social media, not a grad school dissertation. If you want to discuss this in the detail that you want, make you’re own post. For now, in this context, this is perfectly fine and illustrates the point that the original op was trying to make. This horseshit you’re adding to just strengthens their comments rather than weaken it like you want to do.
So just to be clear, you’re saying it’s media literate to just go by a random study someone linked in a comment section with barely any context? And that that comment is even more media literate because someone says the comment has potential for decreasing media literacy rather than increasing it?
Your comment is actually another great opportunity for readers to practice skepticism and media literacy, thank you.
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Daily Kos?
What are their viewership numbers?
Are they among the highest rated news shows?
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The amount of people who view propaganda is irrelevant?
I’d say it would be one if the most important things.
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Daily Kos?
What are their viewership numbers?
Are they among the highest rated news shows?
This is all highly relevant to the conversation. I’m not 100% familiar with them which means they probably are a fringe site and would be easy to ignore. If they get 10k hits a month on their webpage it’s much different then something like Fox getting millions of hits and being on the highest rated new shows multiple times.
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Credibility works in mysterious ways
News is supposed to tell you what happened not how to feel about it. When you notice an article is using a lot of emotionally charged language, that’s a good sign to check the facts (if there are any)
Realistically, any piece of information is reported from a point of view. It is published following an editorial line, tinted by an opinon or an alter motive. This is why you should always consider the source of the information and if you really need to know, crosscheck with multiple independant sources.
It kind of sounds like you’re mistrusting of journalist in general. I don’t think journalists are the problem though, columnists maybe, and publishers definitely. There is the big difference between calling a LGBT bookreading a hellscape and calling a war zone a hellscape. Some news tells you what is; others chew it, digest it, and put sprinkles on the soft serve for you.
I don’t distrust journalists. I think it’s always important to consider who I am reading or hearing from, to take this fact into consideration as well in order to make my judgement. There are as many ways to report a fact as there are hands to write about it, the choice of words has an influence, as you pointed out with your example. We can trust reputable sources with more confidence, but non the less, I don’t think it’s ever as simple as reporting “what is”. E.g: “a cat got run over by a car” vs “a man killed a cat with his car” just reporting a fact, very different feeling.
Cool, same book, same page. I’ve just seen a lot of journalists get demonized because of the misinformation surge and that sucks because we need more of them more than ever.
We desperatly need more good journalists and more truly independent media. In this day in age we expect a lot for free, but I am glad to pay for newspaper subscription and for public radio/tv.
Internet shizzos will believe this is indoctrination and brainwashing
They already think that about science class
I still remember a 2 day assignment we had of finding scientific articles, and classifying them as trustworthy or not. Ie, was it in a peer reviewed journal vs a study at a “clinic” that has bias in the outcome. I remember that to this day and feel like it was a major shift toward my ability to think critically
I know adults who need to take that class.
The mafia is poisoning kids through oranges with HIV!!1!11!
This article is about fake news. The mafia is real though. 🤔
New York is a real place. Does that mean spiderman is real?
Yes. I couldn’t prove the Marvel movies to be a source of fake news.
That J Jonah just says what we’re all thinking
Wow, that’s clever. Thank you for the laugh!
I can already hear Republicans writing up a ban on this type of class in Florida.
Shortcut is to just include it under their definition of CRT
…a bit like how California classified bees as fish, except that was for conservation and this would just be evil lol
Not a Republican but see one risk and one flaw in teaching kids to rely 100% on science: there are strategic reasons to make some decisions which you miss if you rely solely on “science” sources. The biggest risk here is if kids are taught to trust anything called “science” but not how to differentiate between good studies and bad studies - there are journals that will publish anything, and it’s easy to manipulate people if they cannot effectively differentiate between good and bad studies, which requires a deeper understanding of statistics and ability to think critically about the variables tested, controlled, and overlooked or ignored.
It’s still better than relying on literally anything else. Doesn’t have to be perfect.
That’s the thing though, outside of studies published in journals where you look up their ranking and it’s high enough that you trust the peer review, how do you tell the difference between imperfect and flawed in a way that renders the conclusion useless to your use case? It’s not a rhetorical question, that’s what I’m saying requires deeper knowledge and where you should not trust it alone without having qualified help review it for you. And without the help, yeah it’s just as well to go without.
If the study has major flaws it’s relatively easy to spot if you have an idea what to look for. You don’t need special education for that.
It’s not even a problem if you consider reputable sources in the first place, which, again, is relatively easy to do.
Looking at the alternative, even a flawed study is better than a simple opinion piece.
So yeah, I disagree with everything you said basically.
You disagree with my statement that is not actually contradicted by anything in your statement, apart from your open acceptance of flawed studies?
My question then is this: what do they teach kids to allow them to spot flaws and what do they teach them as the method for determining who is reputable? Beyes theorem? How to control for multiple variables? I don’t actually know whether they go into this or tell kids to JUST trust an authority.
Flawed studies have done all kinds of harm over the years before being retracted. Linking vaccines to autism for one.
You disagree with my statement that is not actually contradicted by anything in your statement, apart from your open acceptance of flawed studies?
Because your statement offers no viable alternative and basically condemns following scientific literature unless you are a trained professional on the grounds that some studies might be flawed.
Which is what I tried to point out in both of my prior comments to no avail.
My question then is this: what do they teach kids to allow them to spot flaws and what do they teach them as the method for determining who is reputable? Beyes theorem? How to control for multiple variables? I don’t actually know whether they go into this or tell kids to JUST trust an authority.
That question is impossible to answer. Even if we were only talking about the US, but much less globally. What we can agree on is that it’s probably not enough in most places.
Flawed studies have done all kinds of harm over the years before being retracted. Linking vaccines to autism for one.
And the attitude of “one study has been flawed so I won’t trust science ever again” is something that you predict to be a better viable alternative?
I think you misunderstood. The article doesn’t suggest that children are taught to rely on science, but instead suggests they use critical-thinking skills.
The class is dedicated to developing critical thinking skills.
you sure they wouldn’t like to tell young people what to believe and what not?
Critical thinking skills != Telling people what to think
But then again, republicans won’t see a difference, or they’ll pretend not to see a difference
You see a problem with making children smarter?
I literally do not know how you read that from my original comment. That’s not even remotely what i said.
I said that republicans won’t ban this. If anything, they’ll misuse it to discredit opposing political views.
Yeah, they would, but I guarantee the course wouldn’t be about spotting fake news like this article is suggesting is what is going to happen.
Nearly every act of racism, bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia ever committed has been committed by conservatives.
We should be teaching our children why it is immoral to do business or keep relationships with conservatives.
…Progressive here. Blatantly untrue. First of all, all those words are a form of bigotry, for clarification. Second of all, everyone is capable of— and has participated in— bigotry at some point. It’s just baked into culture and you pick it up through osmosis— whether you wanted to or not. Some of it you may never participate in, but others? It takes effort to fight the stuff that slips through the cracks.
fully expect the entire right wing media aparatus to be demonizing this as something ridiculous as brainwashing kids against facts and truth, and “LIBERALS REQUIRE FORCED INDOCTRINATION TO MAKE KIDS ACCEPT THEIR LIES”.
Or worse, they have the same sort of class, but opposite- one that teaches kids how to recognize “liberal” prose and teaches them to reject it.
And you know it will devolve into little more than literal nazi indoctrination, with hatred for trans, gays, jews, immigrants,etc.
Is this real? I can’t tell.
Should move to California. I hear they’re teaching about how to tell if something is real or not.
Can’t believe everything you hear I’m afraid
I hear that you can
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Thinking critically about internet content
Random confession bear meme on the board
“Ok class. What are some things wrong with this meme? Samantha?”
“It’s not actually confessing anything?”
“Correct!”
Really bad news for the MAGAs.
it’ll be illegal in 3…2…
Something we need, not just in schools but outside as well.
This, frankly, is an incredible move. Hopefully us Europeans take notice and consider implementing something similar.
hope we do not.
Imagine the most fringe right Party in your country. Now imagine they come to power. Now imagine what they would do with such a class.
For what its worth, my country has had a far right party in power for the last 13 years, and I still want this.
…Ban it? Or at least keep the name and ban the actual content. I mean, they clearly can’t teach people to think critically. They’d be asking people to scrutinize what they’re doing.
We did this when I went to school 30 years ago
So what is this: Research, learning logical fallacies and critical thinking OR Trust the government, authority and sanctioned ‘experts’? 🤔
I’m guessing door number 3: ineffective curriculum, teachers who just try to get through it instead of make it interesting, and students end up not caring at all. It’ll just be some box that needs to get ticked so some politician gets a pat on the back. I’m guessing they do it in the last quarter of the school year during senior year when nobody is paying attention anyway.
I’m not expecting much here. California, please impress me, I’m setting the bar incredibly low here.
If they believe 500 were killed in an Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza they must fail the class immediately xD
That depends on which of the several bombed hospitals you’re talking about.
I’m talking about the Al-Alhi hospital. Hamas terrorists claimed 500 people died around 10 minutes after the explosion took place in the parking lot. Meanwhile, Israel is still identifying bodies from the October 7th terror attacks.
hospitals do have lists of patients and staff though… and they’re usually centralised… so it’s pretty easy to tally up a rough estimate for who was in a hospital at a given time
sure, hamas is full of shit: they lie about loads of things… but having quick numbers for who died when a hospital was destroyed is far from unlikely… let’s make sure we accuse people of the right things and not make the disinformation worse aye?
The hospital was not destroyed. The failed missile strike landed in the courtyard, and analysts currently view it as a Hamas misfire.
So yes, let’s not make disinformation worse.
there have been multiple hospital strikes
Cool so maybe don’t get confused?
I’m not sure what you want from this conversation. Nothing will make anything said above accurate.
“I only lied a little,” is not suggesting that what you said is not a lie
Donald Trump is not, in fact, a genius. This isn’t court where I need to prove your intent. I’m not an idiot, and we both know you were putting the failure of Oslo on Israel specifically, just to make Israel look bad.
That’s a lie, and you’re a liar.
i think that you’re misunderstanding or interesting perverting pretty much everything i’ve said
i’ve not used any absolutes, i haven’t “blamed” anyone for anything, i haven’t even really said much that would sound like specific fact… just general statements about the feasibility of data collection (well i did say that there have been multiple hospital strikes, but i’m not sure if there’s some kind of problem with that: it’s just a fact)
i’d like to suggest that you’re interpreting something i said through a particular lens and getting defensive about it
Hamas terrorists claimed 500 people died around 10 minutes after the explosion took place in the parking lot
That ‘claim’ turned out to have been invented by the media, possibly due to language issues. There was an article a while back about how there’s no actual source for the claims that doesn’t go in a circle.
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Who the fuck ends a comment like that with “xD”
It’s actually insane how you are getting downvoted when the Hamas’ claim is already debunked as being in fact fake news.
Isreal is doing a lot of bad shit, and has been for a long time. But this particular bombing never happened as described by Hamas.
Perhaps it’s because an explosion at a hospital, no matter the cause, isn’t really something to “xD” about.
Exactly right, his comment has the typical shill signature.
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It’s not irrelevant, because this place has a lot of people who believe complete bullshit.
They’re gonna be big mad when California is less leftist and more liberal as a result of this program
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I’m a liberal, broheim. Thought that was pretty obvious
You are refering to western media inventing that claim from a post actually talking about probably up to 500 casualties (dead or injured), aren’t you?
If not… here’s your chance to not fail the class: show any actual source for that claim that isn’t media themselves refering to “we haerd someone said”.
Yes, the same for claims that Israel didn’t murder more than ten thousand civilians on a disproportionate response (like a certain world leader did before having to stick his feet into his mouth). Focusing on one instance of disinformation to create a smokescreen for war crimes is disingenuous at best.
