Adding TV shows into the mix that were average made it too much to bother keeping up, and I haven’t watched MCU since then.
Right? Like I’m not against going to the movies for a MCU show. But it just feels like I have to do homework to catch up before I can do so.
They did the same shit with their comic books. All of these overarching/crossover story lines made it so you had to do research before picking up a new title.
Compared to Hellboy where there’s cliff notes that reference to real world myths and obscure early seeded canon. The homework isn’t necessarily; it’s interesting and fun. It hints at more going on behind the scenes that you can discover and imagine for yourself. Marvel killed too many interesting villains off the bat, replaced wonder with cliffhangers, and exposition dumped anything worth wondering about to show off how completely connected their whole universe is.
I saw it today. It was fine. It’s far from “the worst movie in the MCU” like some reviews I’ve seen. And I didn’t watch Ms. Marvel or Secret War, either. Still followed the story fine (I am a casual comics fan so I’m already vaguely familiar w/ Ms. Marvel and the Kree/Skrull war, in fairness).
Biggest contributor to the low B.O. in my opinion was the studios dragging out the writers & actors strikes and not being able to mount any publicity for the movie. I only remembered it was opening this weekend when I saw all the negative headlines about it coming out.
Ms. Marvel was pretty good. The villains were entirely forgettable, and some of the CG was phoned in. But the heart of the show, the main characters, and the humanity of it were all pretty good.
The villains were entirely forgettable
As most of the Marvel villains, sadly.
Ego, Killmonger, Blonsky, Loki, Thanos, Klau, Grandmaster, Zemo, they’ve had some great roles and better actors. They’ve had as many wasted opportunities as home runs, but I wouldn’t say “most.”
Yeah I really loved Ms Marvel but damn the ending was rushed.
Just like every marvel show the ending was rushed. That’s the only thing it suffered from.
Ms. Marvel was fine, but it was, basically, a Nickelodeon kids show and most adults aren’t going to want to sit through that.
I get what you’re saying, but there have been some excellent Nickelodeon kids shows.
Great my fucking YouTube feed is gonna be drowning in so many “go woke go broke” posts from now til the end of goddamn time thanks Disney you fucks.
At this point they’re doing this shit on purpose to get more people voting red so they won’t ever pay taxes again ever.
It has higher user score than critics score on RT, so at least they cannot complain about biased journalists.
Were they trying to keep the movie release a secret for a reason?
Seems like a lot of us had no idea it was coming out this weekend…
Writers strike and actors strike, meant that only minimal promotion was possible
Wrong. It was absolutely possible. Just not possible while sacrificing absolutely everything for their profit-focused timeline. I want movies to be profitable, but most studies won’t accept anything lower than “wildly popular with opportunities for sequels and spinoffs”.
much less what its even about. pass.
deleted by creator
Where I live there were ads everywhere and on tons on TV.
I haven’t watched broadcast or cable TV in over a decade.
All the MCU marketing I’ve gotten has been through hype, and after dozens of films the hype just isn’t there anymore.
Though I think what really killed it for me was the Disney Plus shows. It started to feel like homework just to watch Marvel stuff.
Yeah, I watch basketball, so I see tons of movie ads still.
And agreed, I’ve given up on MCU shows and Disney+
Maybe is a good time to go back and get good stories scripts and hire good directors.
That’s just putting a bandage on a bigger problem. They need to get rid of “the Marvel method”. Changing entire scripts in post production doesnt work anymore, Marvel isnt some small studio like in 2008.
I don’t understand that to begin with. They tout the whole “connected universe” angle but then if you look even slightly behind the curtain it’s obvious there’s nobody overseeing the lore between projects. Not when one is beginning while another is undergoing reshoots and rewrites. It’s not possible and it shows, just like how Tiamut has been sticking out of the ground in universe for like 2 years and all we’ve gotten is a joke reference in She-Hulk lmao.
I didn’t know they did that, it sounds pretty crazy. Almost amateurish tbh.
I honestly believe Captain Marvel was the start of the downfall of Marvel. Not because of the cast, sex, or anything along those lines.
I believe they over did the character. They made her way to damn strong which made all the other characters pointless.
Remember when a literal god, the most advanced mech, and the super soldier with all the stats struggled with Thanos? Then Cpt Marvel swoops in destroys a couple of ships and takes one on the chin like nothing, that was the moment. The first movie benefitted from a month release from Endgame. Everyone thought it would have something major in it.
The movie wasn’t horrible, it followed most of the other mediocre movies. Origin story where we meet a villain that we will never see again and some powers we will never see again. The acting and the cast were good but it was just ok.
I honestly believe Captain Marvel was the start of the downfall of Marvel. Not because of the cast, sex, or anything along those lines. I believe they over did the character. They made her way to damn strong which made all the other characters pointless. Remember when a literal god, the most advanced mech, and the super soldier with all the stats struggled with Thanos? Then Cpt Marvel swoops in destroys a couple of ships and takes one on the chin like nothing, that was the moment.
I don’t understand this criticism at all.
First of all, it was Wanda who had Thanos almost beaten, which is why he had his ship fire on the ground. So Wanda presented a greater threat to him than Captain Marvel did; so great a threat that he was willing to sacrifice his entire army to try to take her out. I think it was Feige who said, around the time of Endgame or maybe shortly thereafter, that Wanda was the most powerful character in the MCU. But people don’t criticise Wanda for being overpowered and making all the other characters pointless.
Second of all, while Danvers did take down one ship (not two, not that it makes a difference), they could have found ways for several other characters to do the same (eg Doctor Strange via illusions, Wanda or Thor through sheer power, Iron Man through nanotech magic) - they just wanted Captain Marvel to make a big entrance because she had been teased at the end of Infinity War (and then also in her own movie prior to Endgame), and we hadn’t really seen her manifest her full power earlier in Endgame.
But the whole point of that her late intervention in the final fight was that Captain Marvel was NOT the overpowered deus ex machina that many fans falsely deride her to be. Because in a one-on-one fight with Thanos, Thanos disposes of her easily - they trade a few punches, he throws her into the ground. She comes back, and he punches her out of frame and out of the film (until the epilogue). The final fight came down to Captain America, Thor and of course Iron Man, which it was always going to - those being the three keystone Avengers of the MCU.
That’s also why all the founding members of the Avengers went unsnapped at the end of Infinity War. Markus and McFeely and the Russos knew they were making an Avengers movie, not a Captain Marvel movie. Markus and McFeely knew that fans would have felt rightfully betrayed if a character, who had only been introduced to the MCU a year or so before, had swooped in and saved the day after a decade-long build up. So they made sure she didn’t. But more fool them - they still cop the same criticism.
And I say all this as someone who thinks that both Captain Marvel movies (and most of Larson’s performances in the MCU) have been decidedly mediocre, though not for any reasons related to her power level.
Wanda wasn’t an issue because we seen her grow overtime with her power. She started off with simple tricks then demolished a large number of enemies when her brother died then showed she could hold her own against Thanos. That was a character with growth.
Cpt Marvel never showed growth. It was overpowered from the get go. They showed her overpower Thanos as well until he blasted her into the next scene.
But you bring up a great point, the Wanda/ Cpt Marvel sequence was a massive middle finger to anyone that wanted something great from a decade of world building. The whole female sequence was a “hey, we have strong… females too, but we don’t give a shit about them.” Most of the female characters are a joke because either they are overpowered or underpowered. Wanda is the best flushed out one. All the others are a " we had to hire them" vibe. I always believed they should have divided up the characters into different worlds for better stories.
“The final fight came down to … It was always going to be”
But there was no reason too. The problem wasn’t that they created an overpowered character who saved the day, it’s that they created an overpowered character who couldn’t save the day because the weaker popular characters had to.
There is zero consistency in powerscaling even scene-to-scene within a single movie. I appreciate a good galaxybrain take but I think you aren’t correct here.
Remember Strange participating in a ~5 v 1 vs Thanos and losing before going one on one and almost drawing? Absolute “conservation of ninjutsu” shit. That’s without even considering the fundamental brokenness of the Time Stone, which he never properly uses in Infinity War, but Thanos actually does use it somewhat properly to basically negate a third of the movie.
I saw the movie with my kids and they really enjoyed, but I completely agree with you on all points. I stay up with all MCU releases because I enjoy them, but Captain Marvel has the same problem DC has with Superman: they’re virtually invincible. There’s no real physical struggle and therefore the fights are just eye candy with nothing really on the line.
So now the writers have to figure out how to make them vulnerable and it’s always personal moral conflict or relationship challenges. Those can work if the writing is actually deep and developed, but not when the core expectation from audience is action and explosions. There’s just not the time to develop the story.
They should go watch One Punch Man to understand how to make these characters work.
Agreed. One of the tropes I like in OPM is that he’s never called to any of the fights and only shows up for the final fight. Until then all of his friends and colleagues are fighting for their lives. They kind of did that a little with Endgame, which was a really badass moment for Captain Marvel imo.
Maybe they could go more towards the other trope of being so powerful they’re bored, but that would be quite a bit against the grain for Captain Marvel’s character.
I think in general audiences are just bored with the all powerful, strong moral backbone super hero. That’s why OPM, The Boys, and Invincible are popular.
100% agree. When you have to create a new character to kill your op character, that’s just bad writing.
To build on this now we also have a Super Skrull with capt Marvel’s powers and those of a several other superheros/villains.
(Or was I the only one able to make it through Secret Invasion?)
Also, I never watched the Ms. Marvel show, so I have absolutely no opinion or frame of reference for that now supposedly marquee character so I’m just not all that drawn to watching it. Plus… super hero fatigue
Pretty sure you and maybe one other person made it through secret invasion.
Ms. Marvel was fine but it felt like a Disney XD show and not part of the MCU of the last decade. I’m still fine with that. You need younger people to watch and not just older ones. Fox did a lot of ahit wrong but the one thing that was great was Logan. It dealt with serious shit and was more realistic. Not like Deadpool which was dick and fart jokes with violence.
I would still love a dark marvel. More realistic and violent with serious stories. A light marvel for younger kids and families. Last an Average marvel, the big over the top combination where nothing really matters.
Ms. Marvel was good, you should give it a go if you have the chance. I agree it felt a little …how do I put this…for the kids(?)…but it’s heart was absolutely in the right place and it made this straight old white guy feel things, which is always the mark of a good story in my humble opinion.
Personally I was done at the scene in winter soldier where Nick Fury digs a tunnel and gets away in a cut away that takes less than a second. The movie then expected me to take it seriously after it used the narrative get out of a looney toons cartoon
Can’t wait for the neckbeards to blame the show being about de wimmens as the cause rather than increasingly nonsensical oversaturation
de wimmens lmfao
goe wok go brork
@neme I remember the advertising for The Marvels was pretty bad. You had commercials that felt like advertisements for the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. One ad I got was like “Remember when Tony Stark built his first suit and became Iron Man? The Marvels, in theaters this November”
I think I saw one trailer months ago that I looked up on YouTube. I’m pretty sure I never saw an actual ad for it. The first I heard it was out this weekend is articles like this. Doesn’t that lack of advertising usually mean the studio has already written it off?
Where I live I was inundated with Marvels advertising, it’s been everywhere.
Haven’t seen the new movie. Even though it was panned I liked the first.
The biggest issue is just Marvel OVERLOAD in general, people are finally starting to get tired of it.
We’ve had so much Marvel for so long. People are just losing interest in general.
No. I wish people would stop repeating this marvel overload/fatigue idea - I’m not convinced it’s a thing respectfully. The truth is, lately Disney has been pumping out a lot of mediocre content. A good story is a good story, period. This movie was not really good, and it required someone to have watched a bunch of other not-great Disney+ shows.
Marvel has sooo many good stories and content they can dig up from their comics, but ultimately the business side of picking the content and shaping it for maximum profitability is sort of where shit gets weird. One theory is little kids want to go to the movies and make the parent bring them, so the movies are produced (catered) with that goal in mind.
Rather than marvel/superhero fatigue, I think it’s more of Disney dropping the ball (like they did with the star wars movies, inb4 they made billions, we all know the movies sucked).
Post infinity war, my opinion is This entire parallel worlds/timelines/dimensions storyline is a bit confusing on what exactly the endgame plan is
It is absolutely true for me, and the people saying it aren’t making it up.
You hear it so often because those people believe it. And there are a lot of people saying it.
I know you’re a super fan that wants ALL your stories. But you don’t make up the movie watching population.
Nah if it was good content people wouldn’t care. If it was truly “superhero fatigue” Invincible wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular as it is. It came out in a post-Endgame world and is one of the biggest shows on television.
People will clearly happily still watch super hero content, IF it’s good.
Everyone has different thresholds I imagine, I got tired of the marvel universe after iron man 2 personally.
The movies have also significantly declined in terms of quality as well. I’m still not convinced super hero fatigue, or something similar, is actually a thing. If you start serving up crap people stop coming.
Who could have ever guessed audiences would start getting disinterested in these movies? 😱
I don’t know about that I actually really want to see this movie but ever since Covid I’ve stopped going to theaters.
They might just need to reevaluate for this new era.
100% not going to the theater anymore. I said it back when COVID started and it’s still true.
Most theaters I would have considered barely cleaned prior to the pandemic. Management only giving employees a few minutes between shows to clean to maximize shows each day. I will never trust the major theater companies to properly clean or sanitize anything.
I don’t even want to go see a good Marvel movie in the theater. I’m certainly not going to go watch some mid bs.
Last time I did it was for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, and honesrly, I’ve seen Everything Everywhere all At Once before that and I was shocked how lame Dr Strange wad in comparison with the idea of the multiverse.
One of those two is an indie movie, the other one a blockbuster. Really shouldn’t shock people that blockbusters are lazy.
I’m not sure what your point is since the multiverse is based on comics that came out way before Everything.
Being based on something means nothing. They don’t take a comic book to set to film, they write a script.
deleted by creator
Good. Less marvel movies, the better.
People already didn’t care for Captain Marvel, so it’d have to be a really good movie to convince people to watch it. The fact that it’s even worse and more generic than that is the nail in the coffin. I’m surprised it managed to get almost $50 million at all.
Captain Marvel grossed $426.8 million in the United States and Canada, and $701.6 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $1.128 billion.[4] It had a worldwide opening of $456.7 million, the sixth-biggest of all time, and biggest opening for a female-led film
But go off then
I’m talking about reviews, not revenue. Suicide squad earned $750 million worldwide. The sequel underperformed because nobody wanted to watch a sequel for it. Revenue doesn’t matter, Captain Marvel is regarded as one of the worst marvel movies and it would need convincing to get people to watch more of it.
79% Rotten Tomatoes
6.8 IMDb.
73% of google users liked this movie.
Seems more positive than negative to me, but go off then.
Every marvel score is suspiciously inflated and every marvel fan agrees captain marvel wasn’t good. But sure, I will go off.
I’m a Marvel fan and I loved it, but glad you got it off so it wouldn’t keep building up and bother you any more than it already was!
Great, I’m glad you got to fanboy in the comments section while ignoring every point made. You were really holding it in. Also loved how you conveniently left out that Captain Marvel has the worst audience RT score of any marvel movie (45%, where Thor The Dark World has 75%)
Great, I’m glad you got to fanboy in the comments section while ignoring every point made.
…I…was directly responding to every point you made with basic facts on the reviews and the earnings…
You were really holding it in.
Sorry, I’m confused. Are you upset with me that I liked the film, or only upset with me because I liked the film and you said nobody liked it so it makes you wrong or something? Like I’m genuinely confused why me enjoying it matters to you.
Also loved how you conveniently left out that Captain Marvel has the worst audience RT score of any marvel movie (45%, where Thor The Dark World has 75%)
Does it? I just took the first google links my dude, I didn’t know which RT score they show on the google results page.
It makes sense though, that movie was review bombed hard by conservatives and misogynists. It comes up pretty much anytime a strong female character pokes at their fragile little masculinity.
Translation: you want it to be bad and not do well, but everyone else does not share that opinion.
Translation: Marvel has inflated ratings because outlets love getting attention for liking the popular thing
Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness: 73% RT
Ant Man and the Wasp: 87% RT
Iron Man 3: 79% RT
Tell me these are great movies everybody loves. I can’t believe I had to argue, with a straight face, that captain marvel is a bad movie
The second Suicide Squad released as one of the first big cinema releases in the pandemic, of course it underperformed.
It also underperformed digitally and sold almost a fifth as much DVD/BluRays.
There’s just so many issues with the character showing up on the big screen. You have an omnipotent super hero that can show up on screen and is already stronger than every super hero in the mcu. She was immediately able to go toe to toe with thanos and while I think they handled it well she was effectively the deus ex machina ish for the film.
Then add in how they basically just rushed a movie out to get her relevant and caught up within the context of the infinity war saga. It felt rushed, she had the whole, ‘people don’t like the movie because they’re sexist’ rant, and it just didn’t end up mattering in the larger scheme of things.
Doing this movie was just building on an already lukewarm reception for the character and it arrives just as audiences have completely stopped giving a shit about box office super hero movies.
The mcu algorithm is dead in the water. You’re only finding real success with it when things are either super well done like Loki or if it’s abnormal enough that it’s new and refreshing like the waititi Thor movie (although love and thunder went too over the top and blew it).
They need to shelve superhero movies for a bit, then come back and focus on quality over quantity. I’m ok with the whole atmosphere if it’s done like Loki, but it’s clear that just trying to ram through as many movies as possible isn’t going to work anymore.
I’d argue it wasn’t that l&t went over the top, it’s just the plot was essentially non-existent
I’ll be honest I was kinda drunk when I watched it but even intoxicated I felt like it was a bit much. I definitely liked the first movie he made way more.
I’ll take that $47M if they don’t want it
I actually had no idea this was out already. I’ve been watching Loki. It really seems like they should have spaced these further apart.
Loki is fantastic.
No. You crowd out your competitors. That’s how you win.
Works in the grocery store. Works with movies.
So the exact opposite strategy that Disney used for decades, artificially creating scarcity to increase the value of their content. “Icing” was the term used to describe it. How times have changed.
Quarterly earnings über alles.
