Friend of mine has a System76 laptop and had to talk to their support about issues with the webcam on certain apps. It was fixed but they asked him to check lsusb. This guy only knows the basics of the terminal from me having to teach him.
The windows environment, as f*d as it is, is the ONLY mental model they are capable of. I have a short list of very needy users who cannot remember their f’ing password. Any of them, much less that there are multiple passwords.
Every day it’s some random BS with email, or scroll bars or something that makes me think FFS why is everyone this incapable of grasping a simple web search??
I moved some of them to Apple because I’m not touching M$ with a ten-foot pole anymore. Oh god, the anguish I heard. The screams. The scroll bars just disappear!!! AAiiiiGhhhh! They close out windows and think that’s closing the program. “But I restarted it!” No you didn’t. They have no idea what desktops are, much less multiple ones. No C drive?? No C drive? complete catatonia. It’s never-ending.
Long story short, the entirety of the computer revolution (that was a thing we called it once, which was the style at the time) is very much just Windows for them. That’s it. If you can make a Linux system mirror exactly Windows 10 in every respect and - AND - run all of Microsoft’s products with no incursion of *nix-ism at all then they’ll be happy. Well, not happy. Not-always-crying-in-panic. Obviously, that’s never going to happen.
I’ve hated Microsoft for so long; I’ve long since given up on them ceasing to be a cancer on the modern world, it’s all I can do to just erase them from every corner of my computing experience where possible.
Oh, and then they tell me about some window with some warning text on it. My first question is: Who is asking? Is it something Windows is asking you? Is it some other app? Is it a fake ad on a website. Context matters a lot, and some people don’t seem to know that context even exists.
I’m not discounting System76’s support (hell to my friend Linux is hard, but rewarding), but I am saying that this sort of thing is still alien to the average consumer. I’ve seen university students not know what a command line is.
linux is great for two types of people… those that just need a browser or libreoffice and could use even a livecd or reset-on-reboot kiosk mode type se;tup that’s been set up for them, and those that want to get their hands dirty.
for everyone else, it can really be a pain in the ass sometimes when something goes wrong. help is fragmented in even more ways than the distros themselves, and every third response is usually something along the lines of ‘google it’ (“i did, that’s how i got here”) or ‘rtfm’ (“what fucking manual?”–documentation is lacking for soooo many things) and then silence.
at least with windows you should already know going-in that ‘backup and reinstall’ is probably high-up at #3 on the list of things to try/do, after you search and scan a much larger pile of resources specific to windows and its (relatively few, by comparison) different versions.
This is a take I would have agreed with 10 years ago but not today.
There’s also the SteamDeck and gaming is a very valid use case now. I do admittedly like getting my hands dirty but I use Linux as a daily driver for school and home.
The forum culture has gotten a bit better. It used to be like that more often 10 years ago but now people seem more helpful. It also really depends on what you google. (E.g. my desktop crashed Linux help vs gnome crash error from logs) But you’re also expecting a lot of free support from the community. If you need support buy Linux from a company that offers support like System76, Steam, etc.
Ok, and you can also just backup and reinstall Linux?? In fact some distros automatic snapshots of your system get taken and you can roll back from the terminal, GUI, or bootloader.
The last one I just don’t get. Windows errors are cryptic hieroglyphics or UX’d to uselessness. At least I’m Linux it tells me what went wrong either on the screen or in logs. Even with visual bugs I’ve been able to find an exact bug report with the developers response and the version it will be fixed in after some Googling.
help is fragmented in even more ways than the distros themselves, and every third response is usually something along the lines of ‘google it’ (“i did, that’s how i got here”) or ‘rtfm’ (“what fucking manual?”–documentation is lacking for soooo many things) and then silence.
This, and persistent sound driver issues, are what ultimately drove me away after using Linux as my primary for a few years. Forums were also filled with shorthand and they wouldn’t tell you what to actually type into the fucking terminal. Can’t figure out what the shorthand means? Too bad, because nobody will tell you.
Totally agree, but with the caveat that if you have to support this user anwyay, bite the bullet and switch to Apple - at least they can still run Office and pretend it’s windows while still benefitting from simply restarting everything as a fix.
My mom is running Fedora 38 on a T14 Gen 2. It’s much more reliable than her old macbook, but we did have some issues with the sound driver, and the fingerprint reader is like Sex Panther cologne - 60% of the time, it works every time.
deleted by creator
what maintenance? most of the peeps i have using it blindly are just automatically applying recommended updates.
Friend of mine has a System76 laptop and had to talk to their support about issues with the webcam on certain apps. It was fixed but they asked him to check
lsusb. This guy only knows the basics of the terminal from me having to teach him.And what would’ve Microsoft support said?
“Reinstall drivers, reboot, and pray it starts working!”
Troubleshooting Windows for non-tech people isn’t any easier in any way.
The windows environment, as f*d as it is, is the ONLY mental model they are capable of. I have a short list of very needy users who cannot remember their f’ing password. Any of them, much less that there are multiple passwords.
Every day it’s some random BS with email, or scroll bars or something that makes me think FFS why is everyone this incapable of grasping a simple web search??
I moved some of them to Apple because I’m not touching M$ with a ten-foot pole anymore. Oh god, the anguish I heard. The screams. The scroll bars just disappear!!! AAiiiiGhhhh! They close out windows and think that’s closing the program. “But I restarted it!” No you didn’t. They have no idea what desktops are, much less multiple ones. No C drive?? No C drive? complete catatonia. It’s never-ending.
Long story short, the entirety of the computer revolution (that was a thing we called it once, which was the style at the time) is very much just Windows for them. That’s it. If you can make a Linux system mirror exactly Windows 10 in every respect and - AND - run all of Microsoft’s products with no incursion of *nix-ism at all then they’ll be happy. Well, not happy. Not-always-crying-in-panic. Obviously, that’s never going to happen.
I’ve hated Microsoft for so long; I’ve long since given up on them ceasing to be a cancer on the modern world, it’s all I can do to just erase them from every corner of my computing experience where possible.
Oh, and then they tell me about some window with some warning text on it. My first question is: Who is asking? Is it something Windows is asking you? Is it some other app? Is it a fake ad on a website. Context matters a lot, and some people don’t seem to know that context even exists.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
And besides, Linux usually provides useful logs, so you don’t have to fumble in the dark.
I’m not discounting System76’s support (hell to my friend Linux is hard, but rewarding), but I am saying that this sort of thing is still alien to the average consumer. I’ve seen university students not know what a command line is.
Yes, but if Windows breaks it’s your fault. If Linux breaks it’s Linux’s fault.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
linux is great for two types of people… those that just need a browser or libreoffice and could use even a livecd or reset-on-reboot kiosk mode type se;tup that’s been set up for them, and those that want to get their hands dirty.
for everyone else, it can really be a pain in the ass sometimes when something goes wrong. help is fragmented in even more ways than the distros themselves, and every third response is usually something along the lines of ‘google it’ (“i did, that’s how i got here”) or ‘rtfm’ (“what fucking manual?”–documentation is lacking for soooo many things) and then silence.
at least with windows you should already know going-in that ‘backup and reinstall’ is probably high-up at #3 on the list of things to try/do, after you search and scan a much larger pile of resources specific to windows and its (relatively few, by comparison) different versions.
This is a take I would have agreed with 10 years ago but not today.
There’s also the SteamDeck and gaming is a very valid use case now. I do admittedly like getting my hands dirty but I use Linux as a daily driver for school and home.
The forum culture has gotten a bit better. It used to be like that more often 10 years ago but now people seem more helpful. It also really depends on what you google. (E.g. my desktop crashed Linux help vs gnome crash error from logs) But you’re also expecting a lot of free support from the community. If you need support buy Linux from a company that offers support like System76, Steam, etc.
Ok, and you can also just backup and reinstall Linux?? In fact some distros automatic snapshots of your system get taken and you can roll back from the terminal, GUI, or bootloader.
The last one I just don’t get. Windows errors are cryptic hieroglyphics or UX’d to uselessness. At least I’m Linux it tells me what went wrong either on the screen or in logs. Even with visual bugs I’ve been able to find an exact bug report with the developers response and the version it will be fixed in after some Googling.
This, and persistent sound driver issues, are what ultimately drove me away after using Linux as my primary for a few years. Forums were also filled with shorthand and they wouldn’t tell you what to actually type into the fucking terminal. Can’t figure out what the shorthand means? Too bad, because nobody will tell you.
Totally agree, but with the caveat that if you have to support this user anwyay, bite the bullet and switch to Apple - at least they can still run Office and pretend it’s windows while still benefitting from simply restarting everything as a fix.
deleted by creator
My mom is running Fedora 38 on a T14 Gen 2. It’s much more reliable than her old macbook, but we did have some issues with the sound driver, and the fingerprint reader is like Sex Panther cologne - 60% of the time, it works every time.
Why would you swap a MacBook to Linux?
deleted by creator
Makes sense!