I am curious how this will turn out. Germany is not known for state driven digital innovation and this is a huge project.
Even though I am highly sceptic, I hope they finally manage to get something going because Germany and whole Europe needs more independence from US hyperscalers.
I fear this will die in good old German bureaucracy though.
I fear this will die in good old German bureaucracy though.
I believe so too, but there is hope because at least they’re trying something. It should be “released” into the alpha stage in December, but I have no idea what it will look like.
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Long history would imply continuity, not “so long ago that nobody in the comment section is old enough to have lived through it”.
But surprised by the backlash here, but I was thinking 21 century Germany.
And in the last 20 years germany did not manage to do anything when it comes to digitalization. Hell, our schools still use overhead projectors.
Not to forget that fax machines are still in use, the German government is using an excessive amount of paper and the lack of any type of digitalization or even a strategy to solve this problem on a national level
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Glad comments don’t get disappeared through downvoting, it’s bad when people want to erase history.
[…] and this is a huge project.
This makes me skeptical too. I’d be interested to hear about smaller projects to replace some creaky system relying on the output of some long-gone contractor’s overengineered software being faxed around.
Those projects have no cool name and are probably really hard to get funding for. But sometimes I can’t help but feel that might be more effective than these “big bang” projects.
Oh clearly, let me fill my taxes online please
Oh clearly, let me fill my taxes online please
Oh clearly, let me fill my taxes online please
Dude Germany is literally the reason we have computers.
People love to give Turing all the credit, but he wouldn’t have needed to build it if not for the Germans.
Turing and Church did a lot of the heavy lifting for the theoretical side and contributed heavily to automating the decoding of the enigma encryption, but the most common modern computer architecture was decided in a conference in New York. The person that is credited with designing the architecture is named John Von Neumann.
Before them, it was Babbage, an Englishman. How did Germany contribute to computers? That’s not to say that I don’t think Germany can’t handle designing this software, they definitely can. But they didn’t have a very big hand in the history of computers
I’m not sure, but I think they were making a joke. Germany created the Enigma machine. Turing et al did some seminal work as a result of the need to quickly decrypt Enigma messages. Ergo, we wouldn’t have computers without the Germans.
Zuse built the arguably first electronically programmable computer or something like that.
I’ve three bridges to sell to you
It depends on your definition of “computer”.
There was a period of very rapid development, largely government funded efforts as both sides of the war saw computers as critical strategically, and a bunch projects went from “hey do you think this might work?” to “here’s an unlimited budget, go make it work.”
They were all heavily influenced by each other (and spying on each other, and lying about the extent of their intelligence gathering capabilities) and computers were progressively developed in paralel.
Who did it “first” depends on where you draw the line in the sand and say “yes, this is a computer”. Even the “turing” test doesn’t work as a clear definition, because the first computers that could pass the that test were barely able to pass in practice.
Also, I think you could make a compelling argument that none of those projects would’ve received all that funding (and there definitely would’ve been less espionage) unless a war was going on. If the war hadn’t happened, computers would’ve taken much longer to be invented.
I don’t think you use the term Turing test properly. Do you mean Turing complete?
What lol
I wouldn’t go as far as to say that without germans we wouldn’t have computers today. What he is probably referencing is the Zuse Z3, which can be considered one of the first computers.
The main argument against it being the first is that it’s a mechanical design rather than electronic and that turing completeness was only achieved on it much later using a trick which the designer had not intended. Interestingly, ENIAC, which is considered the first computer by many, uses a decimal design. The Z3 on the other hand was already using binary.
I took this info from the german wikipedia article on the Z3. I’m not sure if the english article goes into similar detail on those points.
The person that is credited with designing the architecture is named John Von Neumann.
If you’re thinking of the stored program concept it wasn’t Von Neumann, but it’s a common misconception. Von Neumann himself credited Turing for it. Independently, the concept was described in a patent application by Konrad Zuse as early as 1936.
How did Germany contribute to computers?
Zuse is widely considered the inventor of the modern computer because of his Z3 model. It never achieved recognition during the war she went largely unnoticed, not even being used by the government in secrecy like the British Colossus.
For the longest time the British early computers went unknown too during the secrecy, we only credit them today because they were eventually declassified.
American computers enjoyed the largest recognition during the '40s. The ENIAC is probably the most widely known and had a major contribution to the world of computing not only because it proved the concept of a general purpose computer, but also because its creators held the Moore School Lectures which taught the ENIAC design principles.
Another very important computer was the ABC, but not for its design (it wasn’t Turing complete) but for an indirect reason: its patent on the design of a computer was challenged and invalidated in the landmark case Honeywell v Sperry Rand which resulted in the modern electronic computer entering public domain, which was an enormous boost for the industry.
Konrad Zuse actually invented the computer at the same time as Turing, and in complete intellectual isolation from Turing.
Was it in base-10 rather than binary?
It actually was in base-1.5 (secret nazi tech made this possible)
Probably like DE-mail.
DE-mail was doomed to fail from the start. Here, they did some things right. Let’s see how it turns out.
What’s that?
German encrypted E-Mail service for official business (taxes and so on). Nice idea but execution was broken from start. German government doing IT is a running joke.
Pity :/ They have millions to spend.
It wasn’t end to end encrypted though because that wouldn’t have allowed server side virus scanning
After reading through the repo README, I have no idea what it is.
Looks to me like they’re trying to build something like office 365, but open source. Mostly by wiring other open-source components together I think?
This is probably a better starting point, unfortunately the text is in German: https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/souveraener_arbeitsplatz/info
Exactly.
The goal is to allow a completely free and open-source deployment of an O365-like infrastructure in order to prevent being tethered to Microsoft, for example. The main use seems to be so that municipalities can set up something cheaply and quickly, without any licensing headaches.
After reading through the repo README, I have no idea what it is.
A much better overview (in German):
https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/souveraener_arbeitsplatz/info/-/blob/main/OVERVIEW.md
From that Overview.md:
openDesk auf gitlab.opencode.de Der openDesk integriert Open Source Anwendungen bekannter Anbieter zu einer browserbasierten Open Source Kollaborations-Suite.
Der openDesk ist ein digitaler Arbeitsplatz für die Öffentliche Verwaltung mit Fokus auf Digitale Souveränität, Nutzerfreundlichkeit und Zukunftsfähigkeit.
Das Open Source Softwareprodukt “openDesk” ermöglicht die Wiederverwendbarkeit von Open Source Quellcodes der Öffentlichen Verwaltung und gibt Raum zur Teilhabe an der Weiterentwicklung. Flexible Weiterentwicklungsmöglichkeiten erlauben das Einbringen eigener Ideen, Anforderungen und Anwendungen.
Als Betriebsumgebung von openDesk kommt Kubernetes zum Einsatz. Die teilweise nicht originär für den Containerbetrieb ausgelegten Anwendungen werden dabei mehr und mehr für dieses Betriebsszenario optimiert.
translates to
The openDesk integrates open source software of known publishers to a combined open source collaboration suite.
The openDesk is a digital workstation for the civil/public service with focus on digital sovereignty, usability, and future proofness.
[…] offers opportunities for collaboration for continued development. […]
openDesk runs in a Kubernetes environment. The in part not originally developed to be containerized applications are and will be further optimized for that runtime scenario.
I’m not sure, but I think this is a FOSS, Selfhosted, O365 replacement-in-a-box. Well, helm chart.
Pretty cool IMO.
I’m having trouble with that too. It seems to be a kubernetes deployment using helm charts of all the services they would like to have in every commune (or wherever this will be federated).
I was expecting the definition of OS and software to use locally as well. But dunno… it reads like it’s written by bureaucrats.
Neither has the creator.
They tried something similar in Munich, i think, dropping M$ and going full Debian. A few years later they reversed that 'cos the lusers couldn’t handle it.
And because Microsoft moved their HQ to Munich
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