Kelly Roskam of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions discusses a Supreme Court case that will decide if a federal law prohibiting possession of firearms by people subject to domestic violence protection orders is constitutional

  • Jeremy [Iowa]@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    Specially since they can petition a court to review their case

    You do understand you’re putting the burden on the person whose rights are being restricted without them having “had their day”, right? That’s… kind of the whole problem.

    If we had some sort of standard for ample evidence etc. for such civil matters I might be more inclined to agree, but restraining orders can be laughably easy to obtain in places.

    • Salamendacious@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yes I completely understand that. I think the prophylactic benefit outweighs the inconvenience. Due process is there when the order is originally given and there is a method of redress.

      • Jeremy [Iowa]@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        I think the prophylactic benefit outweighs the inconvenience.

        Due to the sheer extent to which this is currently open for abuse (e.g. see prior link), I entirely disagree.

        This is a problem common to ERPOs and is part of why they’re so strongly resisted - tranpling a person’s rights requires extreme diligence and emphasis on restoration of those rights. Putting the burden on the individual whose rights have been wrongfully infringed upon to regain their rights through procedural bullshit is a complete inversion of burden of proof, is a vector for harassment and abuse itself, and approaches enabling bans by incremental erosion of rights.

        If there was conclusive data to indicate such measures would impact domestic violence - not just that by firearm - you would at least be able to try and justify making such a change. As it stands, we have only myriad correlations with minimal control for other factors and even then, there’s not much to be shown for domestic violence, categorical improvement - just a shift in implement.

        With that justification in place, you’re still obligated to cover the road to restoration of rights in order to ensure anyone wrongfully impacted is made whole with no burden on their part.

        If you want to argue for some Trumpian “take the firearms first” nonsense, don’t be surprised when such measures are so strongly criticized and pushed back upon.

        Due process is there when the order is originally given and there is a method of redress.

        Except it really isn’t, hence the entire issue.

    • AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      They don’t have to petition. POs have hearings. That IS due process.

      Want to keep your guns? Stop being a dick and present as someone with the self-control that society has decided is required to own one.

      • Jeremy [Iowa]@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        They don’t have to petition. POs have hearings. That IS due process.

        I see we’re intentionally disregarding the civil part being insufficient and the lack of proof being required along with the inconsistencies.

        Want to keep your guns? Stop being a dick and present as someone with the self-control that society has decided is required to own one.

        Want to take away someone’s rights? Provide proof beyond reasonable doubt regarding the guilt of a crime.

        • AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          The right to bear arms is a conditional right. One of those conditions is being someone who is capable of responsible ownership. Threatening the safety of another person is a lack of that trait.

          • SaltySalamander@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            One of those conditions is being someone who is capable of responsible ownership.

            Point to the portion of the 2nd amendment that spells this out.

          • Jeremy [Iowa]@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            One of those conditions is being someone who is capable of responsible ownership.

            Oh? Was that from the Lost Chapter of the Bill of Rights?

            Threatening the safety of another person is a lack of that trait.

            Then a person should have no difficulty with the assault and/or battery conviction or the significant evidence in support of an ERPO and proving it, justifying the infringement on a right.

    • Doomsider@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      If you get caught drunk driving your license is revoked before your day in court. There are many instances of society restricting rights before your day in court. Perhaps no one should ever be in jail by your logic before being convicted.

      • Jeremy [Iowa]@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        As the other person highlighted that is a restriction on a thing which is quite the opposite of a constitutionally-protected right.

        You might want to brush up on the difference between the two subjects.

        • Doomsider@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          So your saying that freedom from detention is not constitutionally protected? I am getting a little sick of these constitutional revisionist and 2nd amendment nutters.