Johnny Bacigalupo and Rob Hussey have been hit with a £17,000 bill to fix their Tesla after it was damaged in the rain - they have been told to pay even if they say it's not their fault
Considering FCEVs are also EVs, PHEVs don’t anything.
Please rephrase that part, it has currently no meaning (I suppose you translated from another language). Personally I don’t believe on PHEVs. It is just an excuse to greenwash gas cars. Maybe Hydrogen-Battery hybrids, but in this case you put a possible fire hazard near a possible explosive one… Strangely I’m not a fan of the idea 😆 .
It’s the same argument with electricity. It is only green as its source. People are just repeating the arguments made against all EVs.
Which is a valid argument unfortunately, albeit easy to counter. At least BEV users have the choice, which gas car user don’t. Same goes for hydrogen, at least currently, as I doubt anyone would want to pay the premium for electrolysis-only hydrogen considering its current price.
FCEVs merely happen to be the future of the automobile.
That’s an opinion, and I disagree with you. Beyond that there isn’t much to argue over. We both have our reason to believe in our technology of choice, and as I said earlier, both may be valid choices on the long run.
It’s BEV fanatics that get upset when someone suggests they’re supporting a transitional technology.
Only “fanatics” can be as sure of the future as you seem to be. There is still a ton of improvement to make in both case, so unless one of us is a specialist in both sector, we can’t pretend to know what the future hold for us. In any case, anything that helps reduce our carbon print is welcome, battery powered or not.
Plug-in fuel cell cars are a viable idea and solve a lot of problems. You are just fearmongering.
FCEVs are again, just EVs. Just without the huge cost of batteries. That ensures they will be the cheapest solution out there. Your rhetoric against the cost of green hydrogen is just a repeat of anti-renewable energy rhetoric of the past.
The difference is that you are basically saying FCEVs cannot exist in meaningful numbers. That’s an absurdity. It’s pretty much undeniable that they will play a major role given the need for green technology. To deny this is to repeat a common climate change denier argument. It is an argument against green technology altogether.
Plug-in fuel cell cars are a viable idea and solve a lot of problems. You are just fearmongering.
I said that it was my opinion, not that I’m correct. There is a very important difference between both. Plug-in fuel cell car could solve some problem, and create other. For now I didn’t see any commercial ones, so best I can do is speculate on its possible risks. How those risks are taken care of is the car engineers role. We’ll see.
Tbh I’d really like to see that as a solution. Batterie for short range, hydrogen (if it is 100% electrolysis) for long range.
Your rhetoric against the cost of green hydrogen is just a repeat of anti-renewable energy rhetoric of the past.
I went and checked my data. According to the latest report I’ve found (July 2020), hydrolysis hydrogen cost between $3/kg and $6.55/kg. Fossil-based hydrogen costs about $1.80/kg. Not as big as I feared, but still quite a steep increase on cost that may rebuke many potential users. The mean of getting cheaper hydrogen is mostly based on a decreasing cost of renewable energy, which would also benefit BEVs.
If you have more recent data from a independent source, feel free to share.
The difference is that you are basically saying FCEVs cannot exist in meaningful numbers. That’s an absurdity. It’s pretty much undeniable that they will play a major role given the need for green technology.
You misunderstand my point. I merely pointed out the current difficulties that FCEVs faces (like the lack of distribution infrastructure), which are aspects where BEVs excels. This lack of infrastructure need to be addressed before FCEVs can be considered as a viable alternative.
For BEVs, you literally got dozen of potential “recharge infrastructure” in your own house. Slow ones, sure, but you can leave it to charge during the night like you’d do with a smartphone. And you can install faster ones too.
I’m well aware of BEVs downsides, I don’t try to hide them. But they are not as damning as you portray them.
Slow charge speed are not a problem as we require regular pauses during long range driving anyway (15-30 min every 2h are recommended here), which are enough for a meaningful recharge using currently available fast chargers.
Battery cost isn’t as bad as this, fuel saving reimburse them on the long run (I already reimbursed mine long ago according to my calculation, and it is still going strong).
Fire risks have long been taken care of (funnily enough the solution was borrowed from FCEVs, by redirecting the flame using valves). But Teslas are known for their lack of build quality. Elon Musk wouldn’t be its owner, it would have long gone under.
To deny this is to repeat a common climate change denier argument. It is an argument against green technology altogether.
FCEVs have a role to play, but it still need to mature a bit more before then. That’s my main point. BEVs are, in my opinion, the most logical thing to do. Depending on how FCEVs matures, it may become a welcome alternative, or even combine with BEVs to get the best of both worlds, but telling that BEVs are doomed to fail is ignorant at best, or to “repeat a common climate change denier argument” at worse, as you put it.
FCEVs are nearly PHEVs already. Battery powered for (very) short ranges and hydrogen for longer range. A PHEV version is just one with a bigger battery.
The current price of green hydrogen is already cheap enough to justify itself as a fuel. It is just distribution that is the issue.
It will be much cheaper to move hydrogen around than electricity. Pipelines are cheaper than wires after all. The cost of upgrade the grid and putting a charging point everywhere will be in the trillions of dollars. Many times more expensive than what it would take to have hydrogen stations replace gas stations.
The BEV over FCEV argument, as a near-term solution, is quickly running out of steam. It is similar to when several car companies were stuck promoting diesel cars just when the BEV began showing up. It will be the same story. People are desperately asking for an EV that can be a one-to-one replacement for their current car. As a result, the arrival of FCEVs will happen sooner than what many expect.
I doubt building hundreds of kilometers of leak proof pipeline, for the smallest atom in existence (no less than that) would be that cheap. If you have data on that you are welcome to post them.
On the other hand we already got a pretty robust infrastructure for electricity transport (except maybe for Texas, but that’s another whole story), and adding more isn’t that hard. Take some copper or anything conductive, make a cable out of it, install on a pylon or underground, and you are set.
Hydrogen pipeline are cheaper than wires and they don’t leak either. You are just repeating marketing BS from competing industries. Hydrogen molecules aren’t even the smallest. Helium is the smallest since it is a nobel gas and not a diatom.
Pipelines are made of steel. They are much cheaper than copper wires. In reality, your idea is much more expensive from an infrastructure point of view.
Please rephrase that part, it has currently no meaning (I suppose you translated from another language). Personally I don’t believe on PHEVs. It is just an excuse to greenwash gas cars. Maybe Hydrogen-Battery hybrids, but in this case you put a possible fire hazard near a possible explosive one… Strangely I’m not a fan of the idea 😆 .
That’s an opinion, and I disagree with you. Beyond that there isn’t much to argue over. We both have our reason to believe in our technology of choice, and as I said earlier, both may be valid choices on the long run.
Only “fanatics” can be as sure of the future as you seem to be. There is still a ton of improvement to make in both case, so unless one of us is a specialist in both sector, we can’t pretend to know what the future hold for us. In any case, anything that helps reduce our carbon print is welcome, battery powered or not.
Your own post was garbled as well.
Plug-in fuel cell cars are a viable idea and solve a lot of problems. You are just fearmongering.
FCEVs are again, just EVs. Just without the huge cost of batteries. That ensures they will be the cheapest solution out there. Your rhetoric against the cost of green hydrogen is just a repeat of anti-renewable energy rhetoric of the past.
The difference is that you are basically saying FCEVs cannot exist in meaningful numbers. That’s an absurdity. It’s pretty much undeniable that they will play a major role given the need for green technology. To deny this is to repeat a common climate change denier argument. It is an argument against green technology altogether.
I said that it was my opinion, not that I’m correct. There is a very important difference between both. Plug-in fuel cell car could solve some problem, and create other. For now I didn’t see any commercial ones, so best I can do is speculate on its possible risks. How those risks are taken care of is the car engineers role. We’ll see. Tbh I’d really like to see that as a solution. Batterie for short range, hydrogen (if it is 100% electrolysis) for long range.
I went and checked my data. According to the latest report I’ve found (July 2020), hydrolysis hydrogen cost between $3/kg and $6.55/kg. Fossil-based hydrogen costs about $1.80/kg. Not as big as I feared, but still quite a steep increase on cost that may rebuke many potential users. The mean of getting cheaper hydrogen is mostly based on a decreasing cost of renewable energy, which would also benefit BEVs.
If you have more recent data from a independent source, feel free to share.
You misunderstand my point. I merely pointed out the current difficulties that FCEVs faces (like the lack of distribution infrastructure), which are aspects where BEVs excels. This lack of infrastructure need to be addressed before FCEVs can be considered as a viable alternative.
For BEVs, you literally got dozen of potential “recharge infrastructure” in your own house. Slow ones, sure, but you can leave it to charge during the night like you’d do with a smartphone. And you can install faster ones too. I’m well aware of BEVs downsides, I don’t try to hide them. But they are not as damning as you portray them.
Slow charge speed are not a problem as we require regular pauses during long range driving anyway (15-30 min every 2h are recommended here), which are enough for a meaningful recharge using currently available fast chargers.
Battery cost isn’t as bad as this, fuel saving reimburse them on the long run (I already reimbursed mine long ago according to my calculation, and it is still going strong). Fire risks have long been taken care of (funnily enough the solution was borrowed from FCEVs, by redirecting the flame using valves). But Teslas are known for their lack of build quality. Elon Musk wouldn’t be its owner, it would have long gone under.
FCEVs have a role to play, but it still need to mature a bit more before then. That’s my main point. BEVs are, in my opinion, the most logical thing to do. Depending on how FCEVs matures, it may become a welcome alternative, or even combine with BEVs to get the best of both worlds, but telling that BEVs are doomed to fail is ignorant at best, or to “repeat a common climate change denier argument” at worse, as you put it.
FCEVs are nearly PHEVs already. Battery powered for (very) short ranges and hydrogen for longer range. A PHEV version is just one with a bigger battery.
The current price of green hydrogen is already cheap enough to justify itself as a fuel. It is just distribution that is the issue.
It will be much cheaper to move hydrogen around than electricity. Pipelines are cheaper than wires after all. The cost of upgrade the grid and putting a charging point everywhere will be in the trillions of dollars. Many times more expensive than what it would take to have hydrogen stations replace gas stations.
The BEV over FCEV argument, as a near-term solution, is quickly running out of steam. It is similar to when several car companies were stuck promoting diesel cars just when the BEV began showing up. It will be the same story. People are desperately asking for an EV that can be a one-to-one replacement for their current car. As a result, the arrival of FCEVs will happen sooner than what many expect.
I doubt building hundreds of kilometers of leak proof pipeline, for the smallest atom in existence (no less than that) would be that cheap. If you have data on that you are welcome to post them.
On the other hand we already got a pretty robust infrastructure for electricity transport (except maybe for Texas, but that’s another whole story), and adding more isn’t that hard. Take some copper or anything conductive, make a cable out of it, install on a pylon or underground, and you are set.
Hydrogen pipeline are cheaper than wires and they don’t leak either. You are just repeating marketing BS from competing industries. Hydrogen molecules aren’t even the smallest. Helium is the smallest since it is a nobel gas and not a diatom.
Pipelines are made of steel. They are much cheaper than copper wires. In reality, your idea is much more expensive from an infrastructure point of view.