The only thing I think of with this conflict is the Doctor Who speech on war:
Because it’s not a game, Kate. This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it’s always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who’s going to die. You don’t know who’s children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they’re always going to have to do from the very beginning – sit down and talk!
A beautiful sentiment, but sometimes it’s about forcing people to sit and talk who wouldn’t otherwise do so. It’s rare, but the US civil war was an unfortunate necessity.
I agree, there was a lot that could have been done to avoid it but humans (as a group) are stupid.
There’s just some lines that should not be crossed, genocide, slavery, etc. and when that happens it comes down to who has the bigger stick and can stomach the suffering.
I am not an expert by any means, what I am sure of is that there were opportunities for dialog but humans did what humans do best. They ‘othered’ the fuck out of each side and made sure that this was the only possible outcome.
Which is no problem for them! Since they’re going to be rewarded in the afterlife! So who cares that they just shit in the proverbial sandbox!? /s
No, if you kill everybody on the other side, you don’t have to sit and talk. Or if you can kill enough so that they’ll themselves guess what you want and give it to you so that you wouldn’t kill the rest.
This quote ignores the issue of sociopaths, which may constitute up to 10% of people in every group.
So to prevent bloodshed you have to be strong enough to defend yourself. No other way.
Weapons usable in war should be as easy to get as notebooks and pens. Or at least as smartphones. Then we’ll see some kind of peace (the medieval way, there’ll be more small-scale violence, but less large-scale violence as in war, and less death all things considered).
This quote ignores the issue of sociopaths, which may constitute up to 10% of people in every group.
How so? You don’t have to have empathy to see the non-human costs. Or do I not understand what you’re saying?
Weapons usable in war should be as easy to get as notebooks and pens. Or at least as smartphones. Then we’ll see some kind of peace (the medieval way, there’ll be more small-scale violence, but less large-scale violence as in war, and less death all things considered).
Correct me if I’m wrong. What I’m understanding from this is that your claim is that more weapons means more peace on a larger scale? I could agree, in theory, if we were still fighting with sticks and blades. However it seems like you’re claiming that making modern weapons of war accessible as notebooks and pens is the solution to large-scale violence?
How so? You don’t have to have empathy to see the non-human costs. Or do I not understand what you’re saying?
For humans, including sociopaths, costs are subjective. Wiping out their enemy completely may be preferable to having some economic gain simply due to satisfaction.
I could agree, in theory, if we were still fighting with sticks and blades.
Pay attention to what they use now in actual war zones. These are definitely not sticks and blades, but in many cases commodity hardware.
Also, to be honest, typical Soviet field artillery pieces and ammunition for them are not so expensive and complex to produce or even buy. They’d still have uses.
However it seems like you’re claiming that making modern weapons of war accessible as notebooks and pens is the solution to large-scale violence?
Yes, because of the weaker side always being able to inflict some damage on the attacker.
Notebooks and pens were an exaggeration, of course, and I meant not things like tanks and jets, but, again, small drones, small mortars, dumb MLRS like Soviet M-8 (“mountain Katyusha”) and similar guerilla stuff.
I hate to say it, but maybe some groups of people need the shared experience of war to find common ground with each other enough to sit down and talk. Before that, they perceive they have nothing in common and treat people as “other.”
The perception of “other” being specifically programmed by various leaderships through propaganda and population conditioning is a separate but related issue.
The only thing I think of with this conflict is the Doctor Who speech on war:
A beautiful sentiment, but sometimes it’s about forcing people to sit and talk who wouldn’t otherwise do so. It’s rare, but the US civil war was an unfortunate necessity.
Everybody just needs to sit in a room and do Molly together. No war. Just massage.
For real, though, MDMA is shockingly good at conflict resolution, lol.I agree, there was a lot that could have been done to avoid it but humans (as a group) are stupid.
There’s just some lines that should not be crossed, genocide, slavery, etc. and when that happens it comes down to who has the bigger stick and can stomach the suffering.
I am not an expert by any means, what I am sure of is that there were opportunities for dialog but humans did what humans do best. They ‘othered’ the fuck out of each side and made sure that this was the only possible outcome.
Which is no problem for them! Since they’re going to be rewarded in the afterlife! So who cares that they just shit in the proverbial sandbox!? /s
Yes; Ultimately, there will be an agreement at the negotiation table.
But as long as there is a disagreement over where that final line will be drawn …
As long as one party thinks they can get a better result on the battlefield …
The fighting will continue.
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Legalize dueling when
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https://youtu.be/pO1HC8pHZw0?si=-feCVXTcNRbBwvLc
As a child of the 80s.
I was expecting War Pigs, but thats a couple decades earlier.
Frankie is also relevant, though.
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/pO1HC8pHZw0?si=-feCVXTcNRbBwvLc
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
As had been happening for almost 100 years with this particular pair of combatants.
No, if you kill everybody on the other side, you don’t have to sit and talk. Or if you can kill enough so that they’ll themselves guess what you want and give it to you so that you wouldn’t kill the rest.
This quote ignores the issue of sociopaths, which may constitute up to 10% of people in every group.
So to prevent bloodshed you have to be strong enough to defend yourself. No other way.
Weapons usable in war should be as easy to get as notebooks and pens. Or at least as smartphones. Then we’ll see some kind of peace (the medieval way, there’ll be more small-scale violence, but less large-scale violence as in war, and less death all things considered).
And I think im replying to one right now.
That’s where you’re mistaken.
I’ve described what the other side attacking you might think of your “we’ll have to sit and talk eventually” ideas.
How so? You don’t have to have empathy to see the non-human costs. Or do I not understand what you’re saying?
Correct me if I’m wrong. What I’m understanding from this is that your claim is that more weapons means more peace on a larger scale? I could agree, in theory, if we were still fighting with sticks and blades. However it seems like you’re claiming that making modern weapons of war accessible as notebooks and pens is the solution to large-scale violence?
Sociopaths don’t give a shit about the costs unless they directly hinder their goals.
For humans, including sociopaths, costs are subjective. Wiping out their enemy completely may be preferable to having some economic gain simply due to satisfaction.
Pay attention to what they use now in actual war zones. These are definitely not sticks and blades, but in many cases commodity hardware.
Also, to be honest, typical Soviet field artillery pieces and ammunition for them are not so expensive and complex to produce or even buy. They’d still have uses.
Yes, because of the weaker side always being able to inflict some damage on the attacker.
Notebooks and pens were an exaggeration, of course, and I meant not things like tanks and jets, but, again, small drones, small mortars, dumb MLRS like Soviet M-8 (“mountain Katyusha”) and similar guerilla stuff.
I hate to say it, but maybe some groups of people need the shared experience of war to find common ground with each other enough to sit down and talk. Before that, they perceive they have nothing in common and treat people as “other.”
The perception of “other” being specifically programmed by various leaderships through propaganda and population conditioning is a separate but related issue.