Highlights: In a bizarre turn of events last month, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announced that he would ban American XL bullies, a type of pit bull-shaped dog that had recently been implicated in a number of violent and sometimes deadly attacks.

XL bullies are perceived to be dangerous — but is that really rooted in reality?

  • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    46
    ·
    1 year ago

    Yeah frankly the statistics are pretty conclusive. You can argue about bad owners all you’d like, and theres probably at least some truth there (if you’re an asshole who wants a violent dog, you’re of course going to choose a breed with a reputation for violence), but it’s clear to any unbiased observer that pit bulls have a high tendency towards violence.

    No one is advocating that we round up all the pit bulls and euthenize them (no sane person anyways), but that we stop breeding new ones. Frankly there needs to be a lot more regulation on dog breeding, besides violent breeds, there’s no reason we should be breeding more (as an example) pugs, who are doomed to spend their whole lives suffocating just because some people like their squashed faces

    • Forester@yiffit.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’m not trying to nitpick and start an argument with you but the guy you’re replying to has conflated two very different things. Likelihood to bite and ability to damage with bite. You are most likely to be bitten by a Labrador retriever. You are most likely to be fucked up by a Pitbull. I will not deny that pit bulls have the ability to fuck you up. Just like I won’t deny the ability of a German Shepherd to rip a fist-sized chunk out of your leg.

      Furthermore he is pretending to quote with a sense of authority however reading his own linked article will disprove his claim. The number one identified breed with the ability to cause damage was “unidentified”. The article claims the number two breed was “Pit Bull” which is not a singular breed and encompasses many subreads. The third was “mixed” fourth was German Shepherd.

      I have owned many pits over the years. We currently own one that is 25 percent husky and 75 percent pitt that looks nothing like a pit he came out looking like a hound everybody loves him always asked to come up and pet. At the same time they are afraid and scared of our smaller mutt dog with a blocky head and call it a pit, but he’s just a mix of retrekver shepherd and terrier.

      • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        I didn’t read the article the commenter linked, just OPs link, and it’s the same thing that happens with many different “let’s ban this arguments.” People get swept up and hyped on common sentiment fear, and find any “article” that supports their viewpoint, because their opinion is now a popular opinion, therefore they’re right.

        I do think that there are some breeds where caution is needed, but much of that ties back into people having certain breeds that aren’t right for them. Pits are high energy dogs that require a lot of exercise, and when they don’t get that exercise, they do dumb shit. Similarly, a 125 pound person probably shouldn’t be walking a 100 pound dog of any breed, as an owner needs to be able to control their animal if something happens.

        I have a Staffador (Staffordshire mixed with chocolate lab). She is extremely high energy, can jump a good 4’ in the air, and loves to play bite/wrestle. It’s been a long road getting her jumping and aggressive behavior under control, but you’re more likely to get properly bit by our plotthound with PTSD.

    • Nougat@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah frankly the statistics are pretty conclusive.

      From the article:

      Pit bulls were responsible for the highest percentage of reported bites across all the studies (22.5%), followed by mixed breeds (21.2%), and German shepherds (17.8%).

      “Mixed breeds” are just barely behind pit bulls. That’s hardly conclusive.

      • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        “mixed breeds” just means any dog that isn’t purebred, which is the vast majority of dogs, so it doesn’t say much that they account for a lot of attacks

        • Nougat@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          Great, so why isn’t there a huge outcry about mixed breed dogs? I mean, oh my god, they’re essentially as dangerous as pit bulls.

          • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Because “mixed breed” dogs aren’t a breed? That’s my whole point.

            What you’re arguing is basically equivalent to this “psychopaths account for 26% of murderers, closely followed by people with brown eyes at 25%, why aren’t we doing anything about the brown eyed menace!”

            Lumping all mixed breed dogs just inflates the numbers, because - again - the vast majority of dogs are mixed breed.

            Put another way, because I can tell you’re having a hard time grasping this - mixed breed dogs account for 53% of all dogs in the US according to the AKC. Pit bulls account for just a hair under 6% (5.8, if you want the specifics). That means according to the stats in the article, any given pit bull is 10x more likely to bite than any given mixed breed dog.

            Get it?

            • LilB0kChoy@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Because “mixed breed” dogs aren’t a breed? That’s my whole point.

              “Pit bull” isn’t a breed either.

              American Pit Bull Terrier is a breed. It’s one of several collective breeds that people typically refer to when they use pit bull. The others being American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bully, Staffordshire Bull Terrier and sometimes the American Bulldog.

              That term is also often used for mixed dogs that may have some amount of one of those breeds or that shares physical characteristics with one of those breeds, usually head and/or body shape.

              Anecdotally, I have a neighbor whose neighbor on the other side called the police on him for having a “dangerous breed” dog. They told the police he had a pit bull. It was a boxer.

              • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                8
                ·
                1 year ago

                That’s a fair point, but “pit bull” being comprised of several sub-breeds isn’t even kind of the same sort of umbrella as “literally every dog that isn’t a pure bred”

                And your neighbor being an idiot really doesn’t have any relevance on the discussion

                • LilB0kChoy@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  They are not sub-breeds, they are breeds, and I never said it was the same. I simply pointed out that pit bull is not itself a breed. It would be closer to a classification than a breed.

                  Comparing and banning mixed breed dogs makes as much sense as comparing and banning pit bulls if you don’t actually define what breeds are intended by using “pit bull”. That’s why many statutes in the US specify breeds in the legislation.

                  Language is important, especially when you’re talking about legislation used to restrict or ban something. Particularly if your primary determinant is visual appearance since, unless the animal is a registered purebred or DNA tested, you’re relying on what the dog looks like.

                  I used my neighbors situation as an example of how “pit bull” is not a proper identifier by itself.

                  • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I don’t disagree that specific language will need to be used when drafting laws with regards to what breeds (or what traits of which breeds) you’ll be regulating the breeding of. Of course it would have to, otherwise any such law is unenforceable - not sure what in my previous comments would make you think otherwise.

                    In an online discussion though (which is to say, not a court room) I’d argue that you’re more derailing the discussion by getting worked up over terminology as opposed to the actual issue.

                    Do you take issue with how the study were discussing, or the AKC define “pit bull”? Did you even read either study/census to see how they did so before just going “oh they aren’t even defining it right so their data is nil”. Or did you just decide that your neighbor being an idiot meant the entire scientific community was too?

      • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        And when you talk about banning dog breeds, yes you are talking about rounding them up in euthanizing them. Period.

        I’m absolutely not. I’m advocating restrictions on breeders, not owners. No one should have their dog taken away, and pit bulls in shelters should still be adoptable in my view. I just don’t believe we should be deliberately breeding more dogs with known issues, whether it’s issues with their own health (like pugs) or issues with aggression.

        Please don’t presume to tell me what I’m advocating.

          • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            You are though.

            I’m not, reread my previous comment. Last time I’m going to say this before I just block you without giving you the courtesy of even replying, stop deciding for me what I’m advocating, I’ve laid out the strategy I’d like to see in my previous comment, I’m advocating for absolutely no action beyond that.

            So pitbulls will still breed even if you tell people not to do it.

            Yes, of course - do you actually believe this is where a majority of pitbulls come from though? No moral strategy will completely eliminate the breed, but restricting breeders will mean that your average person can’t get one, which means your average Joe/Jane is far less likely to run into them on the street.

            How do you come up with pitbulls having health and aggression issues?

            I never said they have health issues (maybe they do, I’m not aware of it though) - When I talk about breeds with health issues, I’m referring to breeds like Pugs that live their whole lives in discomfort because of how much we fucked up their physiology.

            In over half of all dog bite cases, the breed is unknown

            True, that’s why we only look at the cases where the breed is known for these discussions, without making any assumptions about the dogs whose breed is unknown.

            It’s not anyone’s job to count dog bites by breed

            I guess true? In that people don’t get paid, they do however report breed information as part of the reporting of the dog bite. And as I’ve said in other comments in this thread, I’m entirely sure that there is a margin of error in the reporting of breeds for dog bites. However, even if you assume as much as a 5x overreporting for pitbulls, that still puts at about double the chance of an individual pitbull biting someone as opposed to a mixed breed dog.

            anyone purporting to have done so is basically lying.

            Ah, the ole “I don’t like it, so it must be made up”, very scientific.

              • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                That makes me think that for you it’s about something more than public safety.

                Yeah, it’s been clear from your very first comment that you feel this way lol - you’re welcome to disagree with me, but I’ve already laid out my thoughts on the matter multiple times. Unless you have anything new to add, instead of just repeating the same fallacies about the data being “worthless”, then I don’t see any value in continuing to talk in circles