They were dragged from the vehicle - marked “TV” in red tape - searched and pushed against a wall.
Mr Tutunji and Mr Abudiab said they identified themselves as BBC journalists and showed police their press ID cards.
While attempting to film the incident, Mr Tutunji said his phone was thrown on the ground and he was struck on the neck.
Fuck, and here I thought “okay, maybe a honest mistake, tensions are running high”. But nope, pure malice.
IDF killed a Reuters reporter earlier today with Helicopter. They’ve blown up the Al Jazeera offices during previous wars and shot Shireen Abu Akleh dead while she was clearly marked as press.
This is no mistake. There is a pattern of suppressing and killing journalists who don’t report the story in their favor.
Don’t forget “Collateral Murder”:
On July 12, 2007, a series of air-to-ground attacks were conducted by a team of two U.S. AH-64 Apache helicopters in Al-Amin al-Thaniyah, New Baghdad, during the Iraqi insurgency which followed the invasion of Iraq. On April 5, 2010, the attacks received worldwide coverage and controversy following the release of 39 minutes of classified gunsight footage by WikiLeaks. The video, which WikiLeaks titled Collateral Murder, showed the crew firing on a group of people and killing several of them, including two Reuters journalists, and then laughing at some of the casualties, all of whom were civilians. An anonymous U.S. military official confirmed the authenticity of the footage, which provoked global discussion on the legality and morality of the attacks.
What’s your point? “Collateral Murder” was the US military. Just whataboutism?
Both things are bad.
The biggest issue with that was the US denying involvement until the video was released. The actions of the helicopter crew make sense in context when watching the video.
There were RPGs and rifles in the group that was 100 yards from US ground forces that had been under attack by small arms fire and RPGs. The camera equipment appeared to be additional weaponry, and the reporters wore no identifying gear and had not informed the military of their location.
When a cameraman pointed his camera at US troops, the long telephoto lens appeared from the chopper to be an RPG, so the gunner fired on him and on the support van that drove up on scene.
When boots arrive at the scene, the soldiers find weapons and cameras, and immediately try to evacuate the wounded children. It should be noted that one of the journalists who died died at the hospital. If they were really trying to cover things up at that point they would have made sure he died at the scene.
The video proves that the US lied about what happened, but also very clearly demonstrates that there was zero intentional killing of journalists.
Thanks for the background info.
Are people still saying Israel is the good guys? Do good guys do this?
Do good guys kill Reuters cameramen?
Do good guys bomb hospitals?
Do good guys commit genocide?
Yes, they are. My CEO sent out an email this morning about how he’s saddened by “the attacks on Israel” and glad “all our Israeli employees are safe”. He closed with “we stand with Israel”. No mention of any sadness or fucks given for all the dead Palestinian civilians.
God I remember during the George Floyd protests our CEO sent an email statement that was basically “blue lives matter”. I was happy to leave that company.
No good guys in wars.
Heh, I had a similar reaction when reading a similar email. There certainly have been “Horrific terrorist attacks”. Except from all sides… for many decades…
Our CEO was careful and only mentioned support for the Israeli employees and didn’t mention any conflict.
And we’re donating to the Red Cross. I think it makes sense.
There was a controversial and sexist bait letter someone at Google wrote before being let go and it was heavily propped up by right wing media as an example and justification that everything Google does from now on is left wing because they’re cancelling this poor sexist man.
My first long term job’s company instructed HR to print out the letter and give a strong endorsement of it for seemingly no reason. It basically just read to me as, “Women have strongsuits other than business success like emotions and raising children and their lack of pay is actually justified and good.” that they wanted to come from our female head of HR as opposed to our do nothing remote from Florida male CEO. These rich people are no smarter than anyone else, they just use bigger words as they stick their foot down their own throat.
CEO suddenly emailed out a “terrorism is never ok” email early this week expressing concern and acknowledging the pain of the Hamas attacks…as if anything has occured in a vacuum there in the last 60 years.
I do not apologize for the murders by Hamas over the weekend, just as I do not for the now even more retaliatory murders by Israel this week or any killings on either side for decades. Montagues and Capulets both were assholes.
The idea any organizational head from some random industry in a foreign country could even understand the basic dynamics, let alone decades of murder and loss on both sides, and still make a statement that would in any way walk a line of objectivity is so startlingly naive it boggles the mind. And other than their fucking irrepressible egoism, they would claim they’re doing this for their employees? Company? Just STFU when you don’t know the field of play!
Not sure there’s such a thing as “good guys” anymore.
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I think the person you’re replying to is being facetious or at least centric based on your comment. Saying no good guys, alluding to the fact that the actors involved are all guilty of atrocities in some way. Not that they’re trying to be “politically correct”, but then again, I could be entirely wrong… ¯\_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯
I think the person you’re replying to is being facetious
I’ve been considering putting thems/yous on my work signature.
I don’t think the Netanyahu regime are the good guys, but I didn’t think the Trump regime were the good guys either. I don’t endorse blaming a nationality for the actions of shitty leaders, especially shitty leaders who have directly undermined democracy in their countries.
Wild to me that you conflated Netanyahu and Trump, rather than Israel and Hamas. But either way, I agree.
I don’t think what Hamas has done is “cool, chill and dope”, but I certainly understand living under the violence of apartheid and becoming violent yourself.
Especially when your prayer, worship and protest are met with military action by your “supervisor”(?)
What else are you supposed to do if you’re a Palestinian? They can’t even live a normal day of peace, that doesn’t exist for them.
Wild to me that you conflated Netanyahu and Trump, rather than Israel and Hamas.
I consider Netanyahu and Trump to be elements of the modern international neofascist movement, aka “illiberal democracy”.
Makes sense. I just thought it was a little out of left field.
No, right field
Or, currently, the Killing Fields
Those were from communist extremists though.
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I think a defining moment of your comment was at the end, when you said, “ they’re either strong enough to defend themselves or they all get killed - I wouldn’t want to be in either sides shoes. “
One IS strong enough to defend themselves and the others are the ones getting slaughtered.
The one that can defend themselves? Israel
The one that can’t? Gaza
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Look up the 2012 ceasefire, then ask yourself why Israel didn’t lift the blockade as they said they would.
Do good guys commit genocide?
I was arguing with someone about that. Their unwavering position was that population in Gaza is growing, so it cannot be a genocide. UN genocide definition was wrong in their eyes. I tried to compromise to call it “only” ethnic cleansing, they seemed unimpressed. Then they called me a tankie.
Just take that in: it’s not a genocide because not enough evil sand people died. What the actual fuck?
What the fuck. Who are they listening to? I have also heard the “UN genocide definition is wrong” argument - but because it’s incomplete. The UN definition is too strict to categorize all genocides into.
Shooting from tbe hip on this exact stat, but 10 - 15% of the population of Gaza is over 25. Gaza is basically 2 million children and teenagers. Whom all have PTSD.
36% are over 25.
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When the news reports deaths, Israeli’s are “killed,” and Palestinians “die.”
Israel is doing exactly what the Hamas terrorists wanted them to do. Overreact.
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Hah. Israeli police suppressing European press, “I cant believe Hamas done this”
Don’t know who’s down voting you, but yes, this is actually textbook strategy for insurgent warfare.
Little guy makes a move with the goal of provoking big guy to create a security clampdown and overreact. This feeds little guy’s PR and recruitment efforts, as well as potentially overstretching big guy’s resources.
I even have a recent and precisely on topic video that covers it:
https://youtu.be/UKvzOF-toIA?si=ge1cJA2H7_NtDJcu
He even references the ACTUAL DOD MANUALS that detail this strategy.
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The other option is to be sad about the atrocities, not angry. Yes I know that basically doesn’t happen especially anymore with everyone on such high edge.
But, if we want to not immediately go this route every time to not play into the hands of terrorists then the answer is sad. Empathetic. Feel the pain and hurt of all the people lost and what it would take for someone to do something horrible. It needs to be a tragedy first and an excuse for a slapping contest after.
It won’t work on everyone but it’s a far better response, and will get people on the side of the victims more than the terrorists and then with a slower response less needless casualties.
But what leader have you seen been upset about this and not just excited to finally do something interesting like war? Empathy hasn’t been important to society for too long now.
Serious question- and I’m
It being argumentative- this is a question I have wrestled forth myself.What would proportionate response look like?
Probably something less than genocide and killing unaffiliated reporters
Agreed. So - what?
A well executed police raid to drag Hamas’ leadership out
This is 1,000,000% corruption coming from the head, so chopping off the head will go a long way towards ending Hamas’ problem causing.
Problem is that Netenyahu trying this is what got Hamas into power in the first place because he decided he wanted a replacement govt to be a hateable enemy so I’m not too hopeful
I think that sounds absolutely right. But I worry about while it sounds good from my armchair, to what extent it’s really possible given conditions on the ground and the hostages.
… How do you identify government leadership in a group that notably violates the Geneva conventions at least as often as Israel by going plain clothes and hiding in the civilian population? Do you think Israel has police forces in Gaza still?
Well we know who the literal president of Hamas is, start with him and work your way down the list of more and more obscure leaders
Additionally, Mossad is one of the most successful and widespread intelligence agencies in the planet. I don’t buy anyone saying they don’t already have lists a mile long and the resources to carry it out.
Others have pointed out but Mossad are a different branch of the Israeli intelligence apparatus than the folks who’d likely be handling this, but the point most likely stands either way that this whole incident represents an abject failure of intelligence ops in preventing a large scale attack.
Speaking out of my ass and for America, we would use our “intelligence” and latest spy equipment.
Edit: What did I say that is so upsetting?
It took us years to track down Osama Bin Laden.
That may have taken us years but I don’t think we have an open policy of shutting down whole cities with threat of annihilation.
These quick comments are not enough to do justice to these topics but I do not mean to upset anyone.
A lot has changed since 2001.
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That is more or less “war”. You raid one of my towns, I’ll raid two of yours. Ends when one side has been beaten into submission.
Actively attacking third party civilians is not.
I don’t think I agree – This is an awesome blog post you should totally read if you’re interested in history. https://acoup.blog/2022/07/29/collections-logistics-how-did-they-do-it-part-ii-foraging/
I’d say anything post train you’re going to try to capture infrastructure to make war, so saying we’re sieging cities sounds more ancient to me.
If you read that post, you’ll see ‘foraging’ really meant robbing and brutalizing local populaces for their food since anything but the smallest sized army can’t feed itself for more than a few weeks. Not to mention once we are sieging a city and starving all the people out.
What are some modern examples of ‘letting your army run wild on the populace’? I know that happens quite a bit but I can’t think of any sanctioned ones unless we go to wwii Japan maybe? and that was more than a little wild. Seems like most of the time a platoon or w/e just goes berserker.
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I don’t think you can call My Lai ‘sanctioned’ or official even though it was done by a commissioned officer who was court martialed (but got off). Even then they gave the heli pilot that landed between US troops and a group of civilians about to get murdered a silver star – https://www.britannica.com/event/My-Lai-Massacre
Japan wwII definitely tactical and sanctioned but that one is weird because all of the military operated so independently.
I don’t know enough about your other examples. It makes sense though and I like the word you use ‘retaliation’
A good modern war planner isn’t going to waste energy on retaliation but when you get onto the ground and have a bunch of killers that don’t think of the enemy as all the way human (so you can convince them to do so much killing) retaliation would come up often. Also if you have some crazy strong man dictator, he may need retaliation to keep the image or drive his paranoia.
Ground invasion to search and destroy Hamas, while securing and protecting civilians.
Well first of all military response, proportionate or not, is meaningless in such a conflict. Israel is feeding Hamas who’s in turn feeding Israel etc etc, so the answer is to work on securing peace rather than radicalize the Gazan population more (because God knows after this shit they’ll be out for blood), but if there needs to be a military response it should at least follow Israel’s own roof knocking policy, which they’re not following in these attacks, where they drops small non explosive rounds to warn civilians to evacuate before bombing their homes (which is also bad but less bad than indiscriminate murder). See also: Not using actual fucking white phorphorus, not bombing routes and locations they designated as safe, and definitely not bombing hospitals and ambulances. These are all things the IDF has been confirmed doing in the past few days. Usually the response to Hamas attacks is airstrikes, but the last time anything like what we’re seeing now happened was in 2014.
I can sort of understand both sides here.
When looking from one POV
innocent journalist.
vs.
crazy killing monsters who only live to kill Palestinians and once there are no Palestinians left there will be no meaning to their life.Second POV is
people responsible for safety of their country who expect Hammas to try to sneak by any possible means into their territory to continue in previous brutality.
vs.
possible terrorist in disguiseI am glad that Israel haven’t been doing something for the last 60 years which would radicalize Palestinians :)
This is the best summary I could come up with:
BBC journalists covering the attack on Israel were assaulted and held at gunpoint after they were stopped by police in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv.
Muhannad Tutunji, Haitham Abudiab and their BBC Arabic team were driving to a hotel when their car was intercepted.
"One of our BBC News Arabic teams deployed in Tel Aviv, in a vehicle clearly marked as media, was stopped and assaulted last night by Israeli police.
Palestinian militant group Hamas launched an unprecedented attack on Israel on Saturday, killing at least 1,300 people.
Israel has told those in the north of the Gaza Strip - about 1.1 million people - to relocate to the south of the territory within 24 hours.
Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, told civilians to ignore the evacuation order, describing it as “fake propaganda”.
The original article contains 271 words, the summary contains 135 words. Saved 50%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
That the BBC would report on this unironically is noteworthy.
We gave Israel a free pass to treat people terribly. They treated our people terribly.
What else do they expect?
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