There are genuine disagreements within academic circles at which point you tip over into a market/democratic socialist economy. Maybe Finland isn’t as socialist as Norway, but there are economists who argue that the tipping point is at 60-75% of wealth owned by a democratic government, and Norway currently sits at 65%.[3]
We keep being told the Nordics are capitalist, but we beat China on many of their “socialist” metrics, and yet they call themselves socialist. There’s more nuance to it and I don’t think we should so readily just label the Nordics as “capitalist”. Especially not when “social democracy” itself was born out of Orthodox Marxism and was seen as a market-based wing of socialism focused on a peaceful transition to socialism[2]. The last socialist PM of Sweden (who was assassinated), Olof Palme, quite literally called himself a “democratic socialist” while championing “social democracy”[1].
Market socialism is also not in opposition to social democracy, it is just a descriptor of a specific kind of socialism, the Nordics have elements of social democracy, democratic socialism, and market socialism all at once.
China calling themselves socialist I think is one big part of the issue of making people unsure of what socialism actually is. Nordic countries are very much in the way of “make capitalism better” and self-describe as capitalist, with nobody I think thinking we are socialist.
Peaceful transition to socialism used to be the goal but with time fewer and fewer parties actually want that instead of just softer capitalism. I don’t think it has been the stated goal of Finnish social democrats in quite a while, definitely hasn’t been any sort of actual goal for a long time.
Socialism seems to be in the sort of funny position where Nordics are sometimes used as an example of socialism because it shows that they’re doing well and what we traditionally call “socialist states” aren’t socialist because they’re not something a lot of people see as great inspirations. It does a lot to muddy the waters.
There are genuine disagreements within academic circles at which point you tip over into a market/democratic socialist economy. Maybe Finland isn’t as socialist as Norway, but there are economists who argue that the tipping point is at 60-75% of wealth owned by a democratic government, and Norway currently sits at 65%.[3]
We keep being told the Nordics are capitalist, but we beat China on many of their “socialist” metrics, and yet they call themselves socialist. There’s more nuance to it and I don’t think we should so readily just label the Nordics as “capitalist”. Especially not when “social democracy” itself was born out of Orthodox Marxism and was seen as a market-based wing of socialism focused on a peaceful transition to socialism[2]. The last socialist PM of Sweden (who was assassinated), Olof Palme, quite literally called himself a “democratic socialist” while championing “social democracy”[1].
Market socialism is also not in opposition to social democracy, it is just a descriptor of a specific kind of socialism, the Nordics have elements of social democracy, democratic socialism, and market socialism all at once.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQqZ8btcbyE
[2] “Social democracy is defined as one of many socialist traditions. As a political movement, it aims to achieve socialism through gradual and democratic means.”, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
[3] I can provide a source here if you want it, but policy analyst Matt Bruenig covers it in one of his videos https://www.youtube.com/@Matt_Bruenig/videos
China calling themselves socialist I think is one big part of the issue of making people unsure of what socialism actually is. Nordic countries are very much in the way of “make capitalism better” and self-describe as capitalist, with nobody I think thinking we are socialist.
Peaceful transition to socialism used to be the goal but with time fewer and fewer parties actually want that instead of just softer capitalism. I don’t think it has been the stated goal of Finnish social democrats in quite a while, definitely hasn’t been any sort of actual goal for a long time.
Socialism seems to be in the sort of funny position where Nordics are sometimes used as an example of socialism because it shows that they’re doing well and what we traditionally call “socialist states” aren’t socialist because they’re not something a lot of people see as great inspirations. It does a lot to muddy the waters.