The fact that this conversation exists is proof that the word is intuitively pronounced with a hard G.
The only reason to pronounce it like a J if because the creator liked it - and the reason he liked it was literally because of the (copyright-infringing) similarity to the peanut butter.
He made a huge contribution to the Internet by creating the format, and he deserves it gratitude. Mispronouncing gif is not the best approach to that.
Pronunciation of words is decided by consensus - and while of course people mispronounce things, what that means is, they pronounce it differently from the accepted cultural norm.
We don’t get all in a knot because Americans prove things differently from British people - even though they originally set the rules for English. And we don’t pronounce things the way we do because George Washington (being analogous to wilhite (or whatever his name was)) told us to; we pronounce things as we do because of cultural consensus.
Wilhite’s intention was literally to use the name recognition of the peanut butter to further his own success - which, like, who cares - but the simple fact that he made that decision (and to be clear, regardless of our opinion on copyright, is a bad way to make the decision) strongly implies that he was aware that his pronunciation was unnatural.
The fact that this conversation even comes up is proof that culturally we reject wilhite’s pronunciation. It’s a lost battle - the only reason I get involved in these threads is because I have a hard time watching the same 3 talking points (on both sides) and the same 3 rebuttals - all of which attempt seem to use facts and logic to determine “correct” pronunciation - when the truth is, the pronunciation has already been decided, and soft-G pronounces deserve to understand it.
So your argument is actually that people who pronounce it with a hard G have just never heard anyone say it.
And we’re taking about dot-g-i-f, the format that is hugely shared as memes and as reactions in chats, a form so well known that it’s at Kleenex level of awareness - awareness that exceeds itself - ie, all other variants of this format (apng, animated webp, even webm) are called gifs.
And you’re saying that most people, which is, given the prevalence of gifs, probably most of our species at this point - most of the sentient life forms in our solar system are aware of this format’s name… But we’ve just never heard anyone say it. Except for a small, vocal minority - who exist mostly on the Internet and are deeply online. Those are the only people who have heard it said out loud.
And, in that impossible scenario, most of our species - who have, again, never heard it said it loud - billions of people - all, independently, came up with the same, supposedly incorrect, pronunciation.
That’s your argument? I feel like your case would be stronger without it.
It’s like intentionally taking a Principal Skinner stance - everyone else on earth is wrong. Except, at least Skinner was oblivious.
There’s simply no justification for the jif pronunciation. There’s an explanation - ie, because the creator of the format wanted to float his success on the back of a peanut butter brand. And it didn’t even work - no one calls it “jif” and yet it’s probably got better name recognition than the peanut butter. But - even as weak as that explanation is, an explanation is not a justification. A justified pronunciation - even if it’s different from the original pronunciation, is one people natively come up with, and yet is always the same.
A number of analysis have been done on this subject. Polling showed that more people pronounce with a hard g. Most dictionaries list a hard g as the primary pronunciation. More words that begin with gi use the hard g.
It’s the children who are wrong, all three billion of them. The only ones who are right are me and my friends. We don’t have any justification or valid argument, we’re just right because we say we are.
I had literally never heard a single person pronounce it with a hard G, through middle school and high school graphic design classes, through an entire web development degree, until 2015 when HelloGeneric made that stupid video.
Why? He has no linguistic expertise, and he didn’t have the perspective of the format’s popularity when he made that decree. And his decision was based on intentionally infringing on copyright. And it intentionally goes against the intuitive pronunciation. And the term “gif” now even refers to files that aren’t even .gif - it’s way past him.
This may sound harsh, and I want to acknowledge that he did something really awesome - but the Jif pronunciation will not survive once he, as a person, is forgotten. But the format will. It’s not his anymore.
Nah. We’ve had that conversation before, with SCSI files. No one pronounces those as “sexy” despite the creator’s insistence on that being the correct pronunciation.
Except in gift which is the linguistically closest word to gif
Also, don’t misunderstand English: as the hybrid of two very different language sources (Germanic and Latin - among many others since), there are basically no rules that don’t have exceptions.
Is that supposed to be an argument? That there are two ways to pronounce the letter g? I was actually already aware of that - even before I’d ever heard of gifs.
gif. With a hard g, because there is also .jiff and you could not distinguish otherwise.
The fact that this conversation exists is proof that the word is intuitively pronounced with a hard G.
The only reason to pronounce it like a J if because the creator liked it - and the reason he liked it was literally because of the (copyright-infringing) similarity to the peanut butter.
He made a huge contribution to the Internet by creating the format, and he deserves it gratitude. Mispronouncing gif is not the best approach to that.
You realize there are other words people pronounce incorrectly just because they’ve only ever read it right?
Pronunciation of words is decided by consensus - and while of course people mispronounce things, what that means is, they pronounce it differently from the accepted cultural norm.
We don’t get all in a knot because Americans prove things differently from British people - even though they originally set the rules for English. And we don’t pronounce things the way we do because George Washington (being analogous to wilhite (or whatever his name was)) told us to; we pronounce things as we do because of cultural consensus.
Wilhite’s intention was literally to use the name recognition of the peanut butter to further his own success - which, like, who cares - but the simple fact that he made that decision (and to be clear, regardless of our opinion on copyright, is a bad way to make the decision) strongly implies that he was aware that his pronunciation was unnatural.
The fact that this conversation even comes up is proof that culturally we reject wilhite’s pronunciation. It’s a lost battle - the only reason I get involved in these threads is because I have a hard time watching the same 3 talking points (on both sides) and the same 3 rebuttals - all of which attempt seem to use facts and logic to determine “correct” pronunciation - when the truth is, the pronunciation has already been decided, and soft-G pronounces deserve to understand it.
The conversation exists to correct people who only ever read it, not because people reject the pronunciation rather they are unaware of it
So your argument is actually that people who pronounce it with a hard G have just never heard anyone say it.
And we’re taking about dot-g-i-f, the format that is hugely shared as memes and as reactions in chats, a form so well known that it’s at Kleenex level of awareness - awareness that exceeds itself - ie, all other variants of this format (apng, animated webp, even webm) are called gifs.
And you’re saying that most people, which is, given the prevalence of gifs, probably most of our species at this point - most of the sentient life forms in our solar system are aware of this format’s name… But we’ve just never heard anyone say it. Except for a small, vocal minority - who exist mostly on the Internet and are deeply online. Those are the only people who have heard it said out loud.
And, in that impossible scenario, most of our species - who have, again, never heard it said it loud - billions of people - all, independently, came up with the same, supposedly incorrect, pronunciation.
That’s your argument? I feel like your case would be stronger without it.
It’s like intentionally taking a Principal Skinner stance - everyone else on earth is wrong. Except, at least Skinner was oblivious.
There’s simply no justification for the jif pronunciation. There’s an explanation - ie, because the creator of the format wanted to float his success on the back of a peanut butter brand. And it didn’t even work - no one calls it “jif” and yet it’s probably got better name recognition than the peanut butter. But - even as weak as that explanation is, an explanation is not a justification. A justified pronunciation - even if it’s different from the original pronunciation, is one people natively come up with, and yet is always the same.
The ones that have heard it pronounce it jif
I don’t see why you’re so insistent on being wrong
When I hear someone mispronounce gif as jif, I tend to know exactly what type of person they are.
On the slim chance you’re arguing in good faith and are just unaware. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_GIF
A number of analysis have been done on this subject. Polling showed that more people pronounce with a hard g. Most dictionaries list a hard g as the primary pronunciation. More words that begin with gi use the hard g.
That’s you. That’s what you sound like.
You literally thought that most of the species knew what gifs were
I had literally never heard a single person pronounce it with a hard G, through middle school and high school graphic design classes, through an entire web development degree, until 2015 when HelloGeneric made that stupid video.
If gif is the proper noun for the format, it’s pronounced as the creator says.
Why? He has no linguistic expertise, and he didn’t have the perspective of the format’s popularity when he made that decree. And his decision was based on intentionally infringing on copyright. And it intentionally goes against the intuitive pronunciation. And the term “gif” now even refers to files that aren’t even .gif - it’s way past him.
This may sound harsh, and I want to acknowledge that he did something really awesome - but the Jif pronunciation will not survive once he, as a person, is forgotten. But the format will. It’s not his anymore.
Also who said it’s a proper noun
Nah. We’ve had that conversation before, with SCSI files. No one pronounces those as “sexy” despite the creator’s insistence on that being the correct pronunciation.
Its actually a rule of the English language that g followed by i is a soft g.
Give? Gift? Gills? Girl? Giddy?
Every rule in English has exceptions, but when we make a new word should it follow the rule, or be an exception?
Except in gift which is the linguistically closest word to gif
Also, don’t misunderstand English: as the hybrid of two very different language sources (Germanic and Latin - among many others since), there are basically no rules that don’t have exceptions.
gin
Gin is closer to gif than gift?
gitLike giraffe, gist, and magic
https://youtu.be/jHQ_6xGQq-0?feature=shared
Is that supposed to be an argument? That there are two ways to pronounce the letter g? I was actually already aware of that - even before I’d ever heard of gifs.
The argument is that words starting with g followed by i are most often soft g.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/jHQ_6xGQq-0?feature=shared
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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I make the distinction simply by talking about gifs