Petrified fucking terror. That’s the first thing you think when you look at Labour. A barely-concealed, buttoned-up, can’t-sleep-at-night anxiety, lurking just behind the eyes. They’re scared they’ll fluff it. They’re scared that in the white heat of the election campaign, the Tories will find some policy in their manifesto to weaponise against them and the whole thing will come crashing down.
Yep. But funny how meet people where they are. Means shut the fuck up to a lot of center right proponents.
Holding our nose and voting to end tory rule. Really dose not mean we need to tolerate the anti left ideal of some of the parties right.
I voted for Corbyn for leader twice. 2017 was better than I could have imagined, but we still lost. 2019 was the worst thing I have ever seen. We gifted the Tories a massive majority led by a fucking clown, and lost our heartlands in the process.
England - and it is an English problem - votes along very conservative lines. The Tories have been in power for something like 70% of the time since 1900. We have a media which is overwhelmingly right wing, and even the mainstream left-leaning paper is disowned by “the left”. A Labour government is a hard won rarity, precisely because the labour movement, and class consciousness, has taken an axe to the face since Thatcher. We have an electoral system which massively inflates the power of Tory votes.
Nothing would make me happier than waking up one day and finding that the electorate suddenly supported the values, and economic system, I support. But that isn’t where we are, nor was it where we were under Corbyn.
To suggest this is purely the result of infighting, or blairites, or whatever Other you choose, is to miss the point and avoid having to face the reality that we lost, badly, because we didn’t offer something the many would vote for.
And no one did that. I just pointed out that whwn the right of the party attacks the left with such vitriol. Its hardly there fault that they criticize them.
Labour was set up as a left wing party. Unless you are somehow going to argue that support for “labour” IE workers is not left of centre. Yet throughout the Corbyn years the attacks were on the left. To the point actual members and employees of the party fought on the other side. Right wing labour MPs formed competing parties. While right of center members accused the left of wanting to remove the right for them to run as MPs.
Yet non of these things has been done by the left. While the right is actually banning left of centre MPs.
The post I replied to tries to blame everything on bad lefties. I am not argueing they dont exist. Of course they do. But the simple fact is so do bad actors from the right of the party. And those actors have done more harm during the corbyn years then any lefty is doing now.
PS fully agree its England. Even those of us in England know this. But the labour party not advocating at all for the value of the left.
As for not offering any polices that sell. Utter rubbish nationalising rail was a huge popular policy. So were many more. Before the antisemitism attacks. Labour was gaining hugly in the poles. Yes I to think it went to far in 2019. And Corbyn seemed out of touch. But to argue that the left of the party offered nothing so we can ignore it bnow. Is just ignoring the reality of his popularity at some points during his leadership.
Starmer is not in anyway popular. His achivements atm are3 about 90% tory hate not starmer popularity. How is that going to go when the torys have3 been out for a couple of elections and regroup into a Cameron like party. The right has always been more then able to hide when they think it is needed. Unfortunatly the extream left less so.
No, my post is saying that everyone on the left - including the centre left - who fails to get elected are bad lefties. That is literally the sole purpose of a political party.
The ultimate aim of the Labour Party is to change the economic system of the UK to a socialist one. This is the case even with clause 4 being removed. But that can’t be done it you don’t get elected. And to get elected you need to be as left wing as you can, but still get 50%+1 seats. That is the hard bit we have routinely failed at doing since 2010, with leaders from all wings.
This is the main point when it comes to electoral politics. I didn’t support Corbyn but I was a big Ed Miliband fan (we do exist). In 2015 it became abundantly clear that most people just don’t see things the way I do!