This is the only reasonable argument, but I know rabid liberals frothing at the mouth over more dead Russians don’t want to see it.

Still, for those who are still reasonable in their goals and ends, and the outcome they actually want to see, there’s only one solution.

The argument on the pro-UA side is that Putin has the “choice” to just up and leave Ukraine at any time. I’ve written before about why he doesn’t – not after all the sanctions, not after all the resources and troops committed. NATO/Europe will not say “alright you’re a good sport mate, we’ll drop the sanctions and pretend this whole thing never happened, deal?”. There’s a “warrant” out for Putin at the ICC, what makes anyone sincerely believe things can go back to where they were before for Russia?

It should hopefully be clear that the people calling for Putin to just “leave Ukraine” know they’re not being reasonable. These are some of the same people who also cheer when Ukraine gets new weapons to kill more Russians with. The goal for this segment is not peace, it’s actually to prolong the war.

I’m addressing the reasonable side, however, who might have been inadvertently taken in by this psyop. I mean, isn’t it weird how NAFO suddenly popped up everywhere and got media coverage? After they’re doing the exact same thing as the Lithuanian elves (because elves fight against orcs) did back in 2014, and it turned out the “elves” were NATO?

Saying Putin can just leave Ukraine is impotent rage. Yeah, sure, I’m just gonna give him a quick call. He really cares what some westerners think about his war, especially now that he has to contend against NATO intervention. I’m sure we can totally convince him he’s being a total nerd if we just yell about it on Twitter.

So if you actually want peace, what’s the reasonable solution?

Organise locally, petition your government to stop sending money and weapons to Ukraine. Organise and protest for a peace deal. I know it’s probably not what you want to hear.

But these weapons prolong the war. Just earlier today I saw a video of an APC full of 8+ Ukrainians get obliterated by a missile strike. Where did they get that APC do you think?

Do you want Ukrainians to stop dying? Me too. The most pragmatic way, the only one towards which we can actually do something, is to protest against our governments sending equipment that prolong this war.

Otherwise you have to realise this war is going to be fought to the last Ukrainian. Do you really think it’s weakening Russia in any lasting capacity? The fighting is happening in Ukraine. Ukraine has been losing population consistently since 1990 (a whole fifth of it lost, mostly, to emigration). What exactly is weakening in Russia? It’s Ukraine that’s being destroyed and will need to be rebuilt. It’s Ukraine that’s losing their population by the thousands. It’s Ukraine that’s shooting depleted uranium bullets on their own soil.

What you’re advocating for, when you advocate to prolong this war, is to kill every last Ukrainian and turn their country into a wasteland. The UA army is even using depleted uranium bullets now (courtesy of US and UK), which have polluted the land when they were used in Iraq. This is backed up by data, right? Depleted uranium has data behind it, it’s not speculation.

The reason the war is being prolonged is because it makes a lot of money to the military-industrial complex. It makes a lot of money to corporations due to the inflation. A blackrock affiliate said on hidden camera recently that when Russia blows up a grain silo, the price of wheat goes up. War is a great business opportunity, always has been. And then when Ukraine will need to be rebuilt, it’ll make Blackrock a lot more money.

But I’m not sure who they will rebuild the country for if there’s no one else left to live in Ukraine.

My solution is the only one that makes sense. Any other is purely impotent and just venting frustrations, not effecting any actual change.

    • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.mlOP
      22·
      2 years ago

      I didn’t say Russia won’t stop fighting no matter what happens. Russia has been, from day 1 (well, for years before the war technically), trying to engage in negotiations. What they won’t do is simply take their troops, take their equipment, and leave.

      Ukraine is starting to kidnap men off the streets to send them to the front. It’s also quite interesting how this seems to happen mostly in the eastern Russian speaking regions. Although I can’t say how many men were nabbed off like this, it still happens, and there’s resistance to it; if people willingly lined up to go to the front they wouldn’t need to fetch them off the streets.

      And you can say that once they’re sent to the front (after mobilisation and going through boot camp, hopefully they still get that at least) they’ll be fighting, but it’s not like they have much of a choice. As a soldier not fighting is not your prerogative, Ukraine even made the penalties to desertion and refusal to fight harsher (a few more years in prison) after the war started.

      Ukrainians as a people don’t form a single homogenous group. Ask the people of the Donbass what they think of the war, they’re supposed to be Ukrainians too. And I’m sorry but “wanting peace and agreeing to let go of contested regions”, as your acquaintances used to think, is not a vector for change, it’s just words in the air. Where were those peace activists when Azov was terrorising civilians? When Luhansk was being shelled by mortar fire? They seemed perfectly fine with their government killing its own people, up until Russia stepped in. From what you’re saying it seems they always held these beliefs, they just didn’t surface until now. If they actually believed in self-determination for the Donbass then why are they mad at Russia now?