• Syldon@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        Without a doubt it is a dead cat issue (no pun intended). Sunak doesn’t give a rat’s anus about the people of the UK. There is plenty of evidence that his interests are purely financial and self motivated. But that doesn’t deflect that there is an issue, and yet again they are making pointless legislation to deal with it.

      • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        ·
        1 year ago

        There are massive differences between implementing a ban on pit bulls in a single city (Denver) and across an entire nation (the UK). The US is such a mess of federal, state, county, etc. laws that it is difficult to enforce such a law, but in the UK, it’s much easier.

        Honestly I’d go a lot further and ban all breeds with significant health issues as well, to be honest.

        • Syldon@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          1 year ago

          It is just as difficult and ineffective in the UK. They just breed in new types of dogs. The XL breed is a cross breed with a pit bull terrier which is already on a banned breed list.

          I would be for banning breeds with health issues. I would also ban all dog shows that promote dog breed types into the bargain. You will never stop idiots who follow celebrities, but dog shows are an easy fix, and a major reason people buy pedigrees in the first place.

          • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            Absolutely agree with you about banning dog shows. I am sure that there are valid criticisms of breed specific bans, but the article you linked wasn’t very persuasive at all, it was really clearly biased and had many weak arguments. Of the various claims made, I looked deeper into a few of them and found that the article was quite misleading. For example, it mentions that the Netherlands repealed a pit bull ban, with the implication being that they instead treat all breeds equally… but that’s just not true, because the Netherlands still classified pit bulls as a dangerous breed, and dogs classed as dangerous need to go through state mandated testing or be euthanised, which is a lot more work and much more cruel than the UK’s dangerous dogs legislation.

            I’m open to hearing good criticism from a perspective of improving outcomes but surely we can do better than that americentric article

              • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                7
                ·
                1 year ago

                Had a Google around myself and didn’t really find anything convincing. Just a lot of handwringing about how banning breeds is imperfect because some dogs of that breed can be raised in a loving and caring environment to become affectionate and caring pets. Sure, great, but so can every other breed. There aren’t really any sensible proposals for how to handle the issue of dangerous dogs from those who oppose breed bans. They seem to favour treating each dog individually, but how would that work? We would need to establish a fucking huge office of dog assessors to check every dog in the UK to evaluate if they have good inherent behaviour and that they’ve been raised well, and if they fail the test at that point they’re taking away a beloved family member from people who presumably did their best. I really don’t think that’s a better outcome for anyone.

                As it is we have far too much dog breeding going on, so anything that happens to reduce that or to make it harder is a good thing in my view

                • Syldon@feddit.uk
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  There is never going to be conclusive evidence that it is down to the breed. No one would be so inhumane as to do a study where you mistreat a lot of dogs to see the effects. It is reasonable imo that mistreatment is a major cause of an aggressive dog. You can make a rat aggressive if you condition it that way.

                  My personal opinion of the dog breeding market in the UK is very low.

                • JoBo@feddit.uk
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  If you try to ban breeds you just get an ever-expanding list of banned breeds, and penalise good owners alongside bad. People who want dogs as a weapon, or who want the look but can’t put the time in, will always find new breeds to abuse.

                  Leash-laws, compulsory muzzling, licencing for larger dogs, and training for owners are much more effective. This problem is exploding (again) because so many inexperienced people got dogs during the pandemic and now don’t have the time to spend with them.

                  The problem isn’t going to disappear just because you can name a new hate-breed of the month. All doggoes are good doggoes, too many owners let them down. We can do something about that, if we want to.

                  Reposting this from above (not my link originally): Why Breed-Specific Legislation Doesn’t Work

        • JoBo@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          You should probably read the whole article before dismissing it. Easily the most sensible thing I’ve seen written about this.

          • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I read the article and responded to several of the points elsewhere (OP posted it twice) - it’s total nonsense, sorry. If you read that and thought it was sensible I would strongly, strongly encourage you to seek out a media literacy course because it is quite overt misinformation

      • Jabbawacky@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        21
        ·
        1 year ago

        Nah mate, these dogs are fucking disgusting freaks. I’ve been chased by one before - quite frankly, I don’t give a fuck what your research says.

      • PM_me_your_vagina_thanks@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        1 year ago

        Totally not a biased source, with no actual statistics or studies to back them up - ah right. We have much fewer dog attacks and especially fatal dog attacks in the UK than the US.

    • Jabbawacky@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      52
      ·
      1 year ago

      Same as when they last banned a breed. They must all be registered, muzzled, and neutered. If not, fines/seizure and possible imprisonment of the owner.

        • SokathHisEyesOpen@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s reasonable to make a dog wear a muzzle the rest of its life despite having a good temperament? I disagree.

          • snooggums@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            I assume that it applies to the dog in public, not while in your house. Even if it doesn’t who is going to report someone for a dog not being muzzled in their own home?

            • Cort@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I also assume it’s only when in public places because the UK has had muzzle laws (in public places) off and on since the major rabies scares in the 1800s iirc.

        • leaskovski@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Apart from because it’s not a real bread, people will argue that it’s not a bully wasting police time and effort having to seize and then categorise… time and money an already skint police force aren’t going to want to do

      • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        At least partly because scumbags who want to abuse a dog until it’s violent and dangerous don’t buy shih tzus to start with. If you ban a breed because it’s “dangerous” you’ll see people defy it, evade it through hybridizing (which already happened, the bully xl is a hybrid of the already-banned bull terrier) or just start abusing and selectively breeding a different large breed until it’s as violent as this breed. I’m not even necessarily against sunsetting this breed, it feels like we’re in a situation where a lot of bad decisions we’ve made in the past have made this a good decision. But I think that there are a lot of core problems that won’t be solved just by playing whack a mole with the current breed making headlines

      • PoopingCough@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Because when they do attack they are capable of doing serious damage; enough to be reported. No one is gonna report a dachshund attack for example so statistically it looks like dachshunds never attack people.

    • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      Under dangerous dogs?

      I assume you mean due to their health issues. Cant disagree. But I think it would be a Heck of a lot more complex to define breeds that suffer.

  • Chaos@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    1 year ago

    Seems like we need to implement dog licences instead. It takes skill to own a well trained dog. Then just make sure people who are miscreants are banned from owning them.

    • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      You know that dog licenses were just a tax on dog owners. There was no ‘fit and proper person’ test or requirement for training.

        • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s a _lot_of infrastructure, training centres, test infrastructure to build up. Then lots of fun law to write, such as - am I - as an unlicensed person, allowed to look after my brother’s dog for the weekend if they go away?

          If there are four of us in the household, do we _all_have to be licensed to take the dog for a walk?

          • Chaos@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Interesting point, it should be the owners responsibility to hold a licence only. If its abused such like a cars licence. The licence should be revoked permanently.

        • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Do it every year? Tried to book a driving test lately?

          There are 13 million pet dogs in the UK let’s assume people own multiple dogs. That’s 10 million tests a year. Let’s assume the test are quite hard. That’s a few thousand (10,000?) additional dogs removed from owners each year that need to be rehomed or put down.

          Easier to neuter, muzzle and outlaw proscribed breeds.

    • Destide@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Here’s the neet part it won’t same as the pitbull ban even if we get defined breeding standards and it works they’ll just mix something like Canie Corso’s or something else that they will then abuse to the point it’ll be a weapon

      • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        They don’t need to define the breeding as being a cross between x and y breeds, but as a set of characteristics for example. I’m not an expert in dog breeding but I’m sure a group of experts could come up with a definition that isn’t overly broad but also defies workarounds

  • Gerudo@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    Read this as some new version of American bulldogs. Glad to know it’s not the same breed.

    • tal@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I hadn’t heard the term either until recently, and had to look it up. An American bully is a cross between pit bulls and bulldogs. A bully XL is the largest variant.

      The breed is not an officially-recognized one, so definitions are a bit fuzzy.