cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/37022405
This is a carrier in the USA (T-Mobile).
I did a quick search for the other 2 carriers using the term “[Carrier Name] Family Tracking” and Verizon and AT&T also seems to have it.
And according to https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/t-mobile-familywhere-app, it says:
FamilyWhere uses geolocation data from the T-Mobile network and is not affected by changes to device location settings.
So it appears that its using cell tower triangulation. Turning on Airplane Mode should stop it (assuming there isn’t a separate tracking app on your phone)
Oh Wow, What a wonderful tool for abusive spouses and abusive parents. And telecom companies are making money off of it. 🙃
TLDR: Its a good idea to get your own separate cellular plan.
I have been thinking about how or if I would track my own children. I do not have any at the moment though.
I think the only system that would work with tracking and still be ethical is a system with accountability.
They need to know that I would never check unless there was an emergency. So we’d have to have some sort of immutable log that they can check regularly. So they know if I checked their location. It should not be like a panopticon. in which they don’t know if the parent is checking their location or not. That changes behaviour. Even with the trust that I would not check, just me having the option would alter behaviour probably.
Youth and kids are independent individuals with their own rights to privacy, autonomy, right to select their own friends and acquaintences, right to freedom of expression and movement, right to make mistakes, etc. If they are thought right and have a high trust bond with their parents, preferably with little judgement, then it will probably be fine and most issues can be solved.
I share my location with my wife just in case I end up in a ditch dying while riding my motorcycle.
I have very mixed feelings about androids crash detection. The personal privacy is fine but - fucking google.
You supposedly hate Google, yet have an android… The fuck is wrong with you?
There are several major degoogled Android projects, while Linux on phones is nowhere near mature enough for mainstream use yet.
De-googled projects get none of the benefit of being android, while all of the downfall of being android. So either use it or don’t. It simply doesn’t make any sense.
It’s like buying a Tesla and then replacing all of the systems within it because you hate Tesla. Like, wtf. Why would you buy it then? End of the day its your money, do what you want, but still. What the fuck.
Didn’t know there existed a crash detection function. I just share my location to her all the time. She does the same. Yeah I agree but I rather let my wife relax than not knowing. My point is that not all loses of privacy have to be bad.
Especially since you can selfhost the server for location sharing!
This is going to get DV victims killed. At least on phone tracking like iPhone’s family sharing makes it clear it’s happening and often has a way of disabling it when you make your final run for it allowing you to keep your phone.
This is a useful feature. If you are in an abusive household, then yes you should have as much financial separation as possible. For those that are in a happy and functional family with kids that you want to allow freedom for, this provides a measure of safety if you need it for potential emergency’s or if they aren’t answering the phone or whatever.
If you are in a healthy relationship, you can do this voluntarily and for free using functionality built into the OS or third party apps, without paying your network operator $10/mo
Agreed. My wife and I are both on iOS so there is no need for this feature. Our daughter when she is old enough for a cellphone, would be the one I’d use this for since she can’t turn it off.
then yes you should have as much financial separation as possible.
Yeah that’s a thing people in abusive households frequently have.
This is a problem even without this. The account owner can get lists of all outbound calls of their victim’s line if they share a plan.
The fcc requires some remediation if a domestic abuse order is submitted but obviously that’s at the far end of the abuse cycle.
The issue here can be traced all the way to phone companies pushing the very concept of family plans because it makes churn more difficult.
An abuser can shut off their victim’s phone line on a whim with convenient online interfaces.
Phone companies don’t treat their customers will respect because their is no requirement. No one of adult age should be subjected to any of these controls simply because someone else pays.
The health industry has rules around this. The moment a child hits 18, their claims disappear and the parent loses access to medical records.
There is absolutely no reason phones should not have the same restrictions but the industry lacks the will and will until the fcc or other three letter agency forces the issue.
Your toxic partner: “What were you doing at that cafe at 5:42 PM”
Not a new thing, and I can definitely see good uses for this information. What they should have done is made it so that the one being tracked gets a log and real time notification any time someone is tracking them. This would alleviate some of the toxic spying behavior simply by making it transparent rather than covert.
Daylight robbery… Who’s still this mentally deprived to get another subscription based anything?
If you want to install free tracking tools, you’ll need consent or try to guess the lockscreen password to try to install it covertly.
With this, its doesn’t require consent, since most families are on the same family plan.
Only abusers would use this, since a normal person who actually cares about a family member’s safety would just ask them to install a tracking app voluntarily and be transparent about it.
Its tracking either way, but doing so voluntarily is way less creepy and also free.
Most modern Android and iOS allows you to share your locations for free via Google and Apple “Find My Phone” networks.
If we didn’t have this, my kids would have a lot less freedom. Knowing where they are gives me much more peace of mind to let them roam further, and for longer than I would otherwise 🤷♂️
I understand wanting to do this as a parent, but I’m so thankful I grew up without cell phones. I would never track a teenager. I feel like teenagers need space to assert their own autonomy and form an identity apart from their parents. When I think of the best moments I had with friends, it’s almost always something that would have technically gone against my parents’ knowledge and wishes, even though my parents were very good to me overall.
Who said anything about teenagers? Kids too young to be left without supervision can now learn independence. So kids can be more independent at younger age compared to “good old times”!
So geolocation would be supervision. Interesting.
I led with understanding, and I’m the one who mentioned teenagers in the comment I wrote with my own two hands
I grew up in a time before cell phones, I had a lot more freedom than your kids will ever experience. Crime rates were much higher back then by the way. I still survived even though my parents rarely knew where I was between 4 and 6 pm, but I was always home in time for dinner.
Your experience isn’t necessarily universal.
For my generation it’s close to universal
Several kids from my elementary school disappeared, never to be heard from again. This happened again in middle school, and twice in high school.
Just because you weren’t paying attention back then or don’t remember now doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. As you said, crime was worse then.
Basically any time someone says “This didn’t happen back in my day!” the response can be “the dead ones can’t talk about it.”
When children are kidnapped, the kidnapper is most often a family member. It happened to a good friend of mine. I don’t see what good cell phone location tracking really does against that, though. A kidnapper can simply take a child’s phone away and toss it.
Good ol rose colored glasses.
That’s not how anecdotal evidence works. Just because you aren’t aware of it being different for others doesn’t mean it wasn’t different for others.
My kids don’t even have phones, as they do not need them and they are unhealthy for the young brain’s development.
I also don’t use location services on my phones. Fuck all that tracking bullshit.
A cheap dumbphone could come in handy at almost any age* (calls, short SMS, especially in emergency situations). Though there is a possibility they wouldn’t want to be seen with that. Kids will bully each other for whatever isn’t a norm.
Anyway, preferably a simpler one. I used to spend hours each day on Java games. Really, the only thing that stopped me was headaches.* Almost any - you don’t want a 3 year old calling 911 for fun
These are great services. Insane that they charge for them but there are great use cases. Sorry kids, but parents need to know where you are.
Oh yeah, that’s what parents need… Do you need some medical help?
No but my daughter does and knowing her mom and me can track her in the event of an emergency is a big relief for her and us. It lets her have more freedom and confidence then if we didn’t have it
“Good morning daughter, how it was the date last night? great motel uh? ;)”
No Consent??
I’m sure that the “consent” is part of the terms and conditions when you sign up for a line on a family plan. Not that it’s genuinely informed consent, or that people know what they agreed to, but technically…
Consent coming from those, that did not sign Tte contract obviously…
This isn’t new, cell tower triangulation is a fact of the network operation and is part of how your signal gets handed off between towers as you travel. Airplane wouldn’t do anything unless it where to actually disable the sim entirely, and functionally even that doesn’t cut it in the USA given that a device without one can still connect to emergency services via any tower in reach.
This is just the carrier giving a customer the data that would already exist, for a price, which I thought T-Mo actually used to give for free…
The carrier can track a phone without sim card but it’s not the case if you turn on airplane mode. The whole point of airplane mode is to prevent the phone from emitting any signal to avoid interference with critical aircraft instruments. I don’t see any company risking to circumvent such a critical security feature, it would be easily verifiable.
