Ukraine told critics of the pace of its three-month-old counteroffensive to "shut up" on Thursday, the sharpest signal yet of Kyiv's frustration at leaks from Western officials that say its forces are advancing too slowly.
  • justastranger@sh.itjust.works
    165·
    1 year ago

    It’s like every time there’s a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.

    • SheeEttin@lemmy.worldEnglish
      73·
      1 year ago

      That’s not strictly true. On the short end, there was the six-day war. On the long end, there was the hundred years’ war.

      Putin was clearly aiming for the short option, but then I suppose most belligerents usually are.

      • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
        33·
        1 year ago

        It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.

      • OKRainbowKid@lemmy.sdf.org
        81·
        1 year ago

        “We shouldn’t help the rape victim and they should hope that it’s over quickly. Also, it’s actually not rape, it’s a special sexual operation and they deserved it.” - Tankies

        • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
          16·
          1 year ago

          Funny how if you’re against another endless war you’re a tankie and support Putin…

          I’m neither a tankie nor I support Putin. But I also don’t support NATO and the Empire.

          But just as a note, most “tankies” don’t support Russia and know Putin is a conservative capitalist. I mean he is the direct result of the dismantling of the USSR by internal revisionists (tsarists and capitalists) and the CIA.

          But again, it’s the Iraq war all over again. And you libs are doing THE SAME THING. It’s hilarious.

          • rastilin@kbin.social
            38·
            1 year ago

            There’s a load of things I could say, but they would all be pointless, so I’m going to say this. It would be less depressing if you were actually being paid by the Russians.

            EDIT: Which, you know, is not actually out of the question.

            • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
              4·
              1 year ago

              “Being against war means you are our enemy!” - the “pacifist”, “anti-war”, liberal.

            • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
              4·
              1 year ago

              More than you guys it seems. You’re all salivating at the idea of Russians dying and this war never ending.

                • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  3·
                  1 year ago

                  Me too. We take Putin out, return the USSR, and then we dismantle the far-right apparatus in Ukraine as well. We close all US military bases and shut down NATO.

                  We then impose on the US strict international laws to never have a military, to interfere or invade another nation again, or it’s dismantled and given to all 3rd world countries it fucked over the past 100 years.

          • Franconian_Nomad@feddit.de
            26·
            1 year ago

            „Libs“ we’re against the Iraq war. It divided the US population and the whole western world. Never listened to American Idiot?

            I’m confused. You want us to protest against one sort of imperialism, but not the other?

            • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
              6·
              1 year ago

              I think you’re remembering incorrectly bro… After 9/11, if you didn’t support invading any vaguely Muslim country you were a traitor. Fucking libs on TV were cheering for killing Saddam and invading Iraq, dismissing any attempts to question why would that even make sense as weak-spined traitorous behaviour.

              Also, how can you say that while you support a never ending war in Ukraine?

              Is Russia imperialist? Yes. Is this invasion a tragedy? Yes. Did it happen, and will continue to happen for a long time in good part because of the US? Fuck yes as well.

              I don’t support Russia invading or winning the war. I don’t support NATO breaking its promises and meddling in Eastern Europe propping up Nazis.

              The US Empire is directly responsible for Putin, in the first place. And it’s now directly responsible for the extreme right in Ukraine.

              What anyone who’s actually against war wants is for the US Empire to fall and NATO to be dismantled. For Putin to fall and the Russian people to have freedom again. For the Nazis in Ukraine to not have power anymore.

              If you support sending billions in weapons to Ukraine (as fucking debt, Ukraine will be in debt to the US and Europe for centuries…), if you support war games in South Korea, Taiwan, if you complained when Biden left Afghanistan… you’re literally a war hawk.

              • Franconian_Nomad@feddit.de
                15·
                1 year ago

                You blathering fool. I’m not your bro and never will be.

                When you see a school bully who fights a smaller kid who doesn’t want to give up his lunch money, what do you do? You are the kind of person shouting at the victim to comply to avoid any further bloodshed, right? You’re fucking filth. I think I even watched a Star Trek episode about your fucking kind, lol.

                Just for your information: NATO has nothing to do with this. Other than being a scapegoat of course. Quite the opposite, if Ukraine was part of NATO, this war would never happened. Why do you think Poland and the Chech Rebublic were so eager to join it? NATO is a defense pact. But I know, people like you don’t care. NATO is the big boogie man you need to justify your political views.

                And no, I don’t remember incorrectly. The Bush regime was republican. They faked evidence to attack Iraq. The were huge demonstations and turmoil Google the Dixie Chicks, listen to American Idiot. I’m not american. I’m german. We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil” because we didn’t agree with the war. Shut the fuck up.

                I was always pretty left leaning. Never liked US-Imperialism since I got 16 and realised Tom Clancy Novels were pretty one-sided. But if supporting ukraine means I’m a Hawk, so be it. All I know is, I don’t want to be on your side!

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  4·
                  1 year ago

                  We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil”

                  Slight correction, no, they didn’t go that far. We’re “Old Europe”.

                  It was also when they renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries to protest the French being, well, French, as if the French wouldn’t already be constantly doing that. (Meanwhile Belgium was hoping someone would notice them).

        • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
          10·
          1 year ago

          And shelling civilians in the Donbas is presumably the equivalent of putting on a nice dress in your metaphor?

          Make extremely inappropriate and wrong rape comparison ⇒ Accuse anyone who disagrees of being a rape apologist ⇒ FUCK TANKIES!

          Extremely normal and sound logic there, definitely not just vibe-based emotional manipulation.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            14·
            1 year ago

            Ask Prigozhin whether that shelling actually happened. You swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

            • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
              3·
              1 year ago

              https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/OHCHRThematicReportUkraineJan2014-May2016_EN.pdf

              OHCHR estimates that between mid-April 2014 and 31 May 2016, at least 9,404 people, of which up to 2,000 are civilians, have been killed as a result of the conflict. The vast majority of civilian casualties, recorded on the territories controlled by the Government of Ukraine and on those controlled by armed groups, were caused by the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas, in violation of the international humanitarian law principle of distinction.

              Na better believe Prigozhin, that guy never told a lie or said anything that was totally wrong.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
                11·
                1 year ago

                What do you believe your source to say, exactly? That Ukraine shelled indiscriminately? If so, you should read it again.

                • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
                  5·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes it says that exactly, unless you think the “armed groups” shelled themselves.

      • Radicalized@lemmy.one
        10·
        1 year ago

        There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:

        https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD

        This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.

        Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.

        Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.

        • Raikin@feddit.de
          12·
          1 year ago

          Seems like to you being a lib means not falling for badly researched, one-sided videos?

          • Radicalized@lemmy.one
            6·
            1 year ago

            You didn’t watch the video did you? They don’t mention anything that

            All you liberals give cons a lot of shit for being bloodthirsty war hawks but you froth at the mouth at the thought of war too. You’ll look at situations like what’s happening in Gabon and Niger, say “wow the French are fucked and they kind of deserve it for what they did to those countries”, and then develop an amazing blind spot for western imperialism in Eastern Europe.

            Obviously this war shouldn’t have happened. Obviously Putin is an asshole. Obviously what’s happening in Ukraine needs to be stopped.

            We (the west) made our own monster though.

            • BitPirate@feddit.de
              9·
              1 year ago

              All you liberals give cons

              All this my team, your team rhetoric…

              Honest question, but how many times a day do you think about events and try to fit them into one of these two categories? At what point do you start using these terms interchangeably for good and evil?

              These days, I try to skip posts from people who crossed that line. Left, right or centre. If someone has limited their mental capacity to binary decisions, it’s not worth arguing with them, because the answer to everything will always be “my team”.

      • Blursty@lemmy.ml
        6·
        1 year ago

        The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.

            • vokkez@lemmy.world
              7·
              1 year ago

              Lol literally every single line of that post is absolutely nonsense.

              The US is on its last legs though.

              Lol in what universe? By way metric is the most powerful nation in the world limping along?

              It badly needed this win.

              If we badly needed a win we wouldn’t be sending 30+ year-old surplus gear. Ukraine would have F-35s instead of the air force trying to pawn off A-10s because we’re retiring them and don’t want to break them down.

              The US falls before Putin dies.

              Unless he’s a Highlander there’s no fucking chance.

        • IonAddis@lemmy.worldEnglish
          6·
          1 year ago

          I always take a peek at the comment history when I see things like this. And this guy basically just woke up to say things like this in one specific thread.

          I’m no longer a mod of anything these days, but if I had a mod-hammer I’d send you into the next galaxy.

  • thecodemonk@programming.dev
    103·
    1 year ago

    The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It’s mind blowing.

  • lntl@lemmy.ml
    54·
    1 year ago

    Haters gonna hate. Still though, they’ll need to be cordial if some of these critics are also paying Ukrainian bills. Being rude is the fast track to falling out of favor with foriegn taxpayers.

    • RangerAndTheCat@startrek.website
      90·
      1 year ago

      They’re tired and weary from the onslaught of war fringe to safe their country from Putins aggression. Any dig at their progress is a dig at morale that spreads not only through the ranks, but also to the general public. There is a time for constructive criticism, but that should be done in private with actual solutions offered by those criticizing. I understand their needs to be some decorum but you can’t blame them for what I would consider a mild retort as their countrymen die trying to retake their land everyday.

  • macniel@feddit.de
    48·
    1 year ago

    Good for Kyiv. Those armchair generals should shut up and fight if they think things are going slowly.

  • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
    43·
    1 year ago

    Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.

    And those folks ain’t talking.

    • DrNeurohax@kbin.social
      40·
      1 year ago

      All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the first things considered in strategizing any armed conflict is whether they want Russia and China to know that we have X or are capable of Y. Russia has shown their hand. If they could do more, they would have by now.

      It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset. Hospitals, schools, churches, shipping centers - they’re all valid targets. If Russia wants a position, they’ll level the entire town. That certainly changes the plans, of anyone thought they would abode by the Geneva Conventions.

      • rastilin@kbin.social
        24·
        1 year ago

        All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.

        The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out. This is even considering that Russia was found to have been paying out bounties on dead American soldiers, or that they had people assassinated in the UK. Certainly it should be a disqualifier that Russia isn’t a true Democracy and had Putin’s political opponents jailed. Two Democracies won’t directly start a conflict against each other, but that doesn’t hold up between Democracies and non-Democracies.

        My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.

        • awwwyissss@lemm.ee
          7·
          1 year ago

          My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.

          Same, feels like the democracies of the world really got caught with their pants down by authoritarian operatives and their LLMs on social media.

        • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
          3·
          1 year ago

          The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out.

          The reason is money. Either they got paid by Putin or they’ve been brainwashed by someone who got paid by Putin.

      • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
        15·
        1 year ago

        The Russians have less tactics and capabilities than NATO thought. Now it is a matter of how quickly they can be overwhelmed should it come to it. Their big problem is mid level command.

      • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
        5·
        1 year ago

        It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset.

        Oh those backwards Russians, still stuck in the past, where they were just a bunch of barbarian hordes. I assume the West, by contrast, has developed a civilized kind of warfare, as befitting their superior civilized culture? That’s what you’re saying, right?

        The civilized West would never… oh yeah they would and they did, repeatedly, and it was worse actually in e.g. Iraq. So all this “barbarism” shit is just racism with no basis in reality.

        • figaro@lemdro.idEnglish
          10·
          1 year ago

          Or both sides suck and all war is bad, and no one should attack sovereign countries

          • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
            2·
            1 year ago

            Russia is still using barbaric tactics, according to the person I replied to. This implies that barbarism is typical (and backwards) of Russia, like that racist trope about barbaric Mongol hordes. It also implies that someone else (presumably NATO, which they mention) isn’t using barbaric tactics, which is blatantly untrue.

            I don’t understand how what you wrote is a addressing my post? What’s your point?

            • figaro@lemdro.idEnglish
              14·
              1 year ago

              Has Russia been bombing civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine?

              Please note, I am asking nothing about NATO or America. I agree, the US has committed atrocities in other countries at war. I’m asking specifically if Russia has bombed civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine.

              • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
                2·
                1 year ago

                So it’s not racist to say Russia is still in a barbaric mindset, because they are bombing apartment buildings in Ukraine? Is that it? Even though the way it was phrased implies that barbarism is typical of Russia and its history, and also falsely implies NATO isn’t barbaric and isn’t doing the same thing, and it’s a well-known racist trope?

                This person’s comment exhibits the common double standard of the good civilized nations vs. the uncivilized primitives bullshit, which is about the oldest racist narrative there is.

                • figaro@lemdro.idEnglish
                  10·
                  1 year ago

                  I didn’t say anything about the people. Every Russian person I have met is super nice.

                  Governments though, they suck. Governments bomb apartment buildings full of people. These particular governments are barbaric.

                  I think it is important to acknowledge that both the US government and the Russian government are responsible for terrible atrocities. It is not racist to say that.

    • JoYo@lemmy.mlEnglish
      5·
      1 year ago

      the whole world is sending people to become veterans so they can return with their experience and become trainers.

    • Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow@lemmy.world
      5·
      1 year ago

      The line doesn’t need to move quicker, and Ukraine moving slowly and shoring up every meter they take is going to work out better long term. They aren’t on a march to invade their lost territory, they are on a march to the Azov sea to cut Russia’s only remaining land access to Crimea.

      They are building a wall of men and weapons and once that reaches Azov they only have to defend it - and Ukraine are very good at defence.

      Then the only way Russia has to get anything to Crimea is the Kerch bridge which is almost inevitably going to be destroyed.

    • variaatio@sopuli.xyz
      3·
      1 year ago

      Depends how deep the lines are. They have breached the first line at some points. However as per ukrainians, after the first line is the second line and so on. Russia knows how to make deep defences and anywhere, where they lose one line, they will adjust and start added more lines to the rear to compensate for the lost line. First line lost, second line is now first line, third line is second and so on and add the new Nth line, since the old Nth is now Nth-1 line.

      It will be a slow slug and battering ram fest, unless Russian army morale breaks/ supplies exhaust and they run.

      • Nythos@sh.itjust.works
        24·
        1 year ago

        No kidding.

        I know it’s purely anecdotal but all the Ukrainians I’ve had in my town have been some of the most kindest and polite people I’ve had the pleasure of serving

        • Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow@lemmy.world
          2·
          1 year ago

          Usually true of refugee populations. People in the West don’t realise what it takes to leave your country forever and build a new life from nothing somewhere else. These are strong people who value community and charity because they can’t take it for granted anymore.

      • SpiderShoeCult@sopuli.xyz
        19·
        1 year ago

        I… have some news for you.

        Sadly, this is the sort of shit parroted amongst less tech savy populations in countries with Ukranian refugees. Mostly older parents, grandparents, older aunts and uncles and such from Eastern Europe (the first port of call usually for refugees - neighboring countries). Hence why you don’t see it that often around here. It’s present in the west of Europe, as well.

        Also quite popular is ‘we can’t take care of our own [homeless people], but have you seen the amount of money that the government is pumping into them with their fancy cars?’

        Oh and “I’m sick and tired of hearing ukranian everywhere I go. The playground is full of ukranian children and their parents that don’t speak {local language}!”

        I suspect it’s russian propaganda, because nobody can be that stupid on their own, right?

        Like sure, they have audi q8s. What were they supposed to do? Leave them there and walk towards new places? And if your daughter/son was fleeing invaders, what would you think of the asshats that point at them and say ‘go away with yer fancy car!’? I thought we were all on the same page of not wanting russia as a neighbour in the near future. Apparently not. Somehow people running away from actual rape and murder are inconveniencing them.

        • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
          1·
          1 year ago

          Your logic is that the rich Ukrainians that bribed their way out of the war should be allowed to enjoy their wealth while their countrymen die for their freedom, rather than sell their luxury cars to help the war effort? I think you’re a giant POS and would never want to know you IRL.

    • BitPirate@feddit.de
      36·
      1 year ago

      As an european taxpayer who see Ukrainian in Jaguar and Audi Q7 driving aroung in my country

      So you’re just jealous because they weren’t all beggars when the war broke out?

      they are in a conflict, getting free supply of everything and they complain!

      A lot of people are getting killed. They have every right to complain.

      • Blursty@lemmy.ml
        5·
        1 year ago

        So where are you on the other refugees who get nothing and are from even close countries than Ukraine?

        They get nothing because they’re not white, right?

        • BitPirate@feddit.de
          7·
          1 year ago

          So where are you on the other refugees who get nothing

          We didn’t buy those cars for them if that’s what you’re trying to imply here. Being a refugee doesn’t mean that you leave your country without any possessions or money.

          and are from even close countries than Ukraine? They get nothing because they’re not white, right?

          I’m not aware of any bonus for Ukrainian refugees that would set them apart from others. But feel free to cough up some facts.

          • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
            1·
            1 year ago

            Their countryman are dying and pleasding for support, and they’re driving luxury cars. You don’t see anything wrong with that?

            • BitPirate@feddit.de
              2·
              1 year ago

              It is morally questionable, yes. But we are not talking about hundreds of thousands of refugees with luxury cars. In every conflict there are people with a golden parachute.

              • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
                1·
                1 year ago

                Seems like there are enough of them to make it apparent to many that they’ve absconded with wealth that should be used for the war effort.

    • MHcharLEE@lemdro.idEnglish
      32·
      1 year ago

      Those are the ones you see. How do you tell a Ukrainian from your own countrymen on a bus? They’re not all rich, they’re not all assholes, they are where they are because they wanted to stay alive. And so would you if you were in their shoes, you dense fuck.

    • infinipurple@lemm.ee
      21·
      1 year ago

      What a hot and plainly idiotic take.

      If you’re not shilling for the Russians, you’re certainly dense as fuck.

    • figaro@lemdro.idEnglish
      20·
      1 year ago

      Hey,

      I know you are getting downvoted and railed on pretty hard here, but please take this moment to reconsider some of your core beliefs and why you might feel the way you do.

      Are people fleeing their home country to get rich?

        • BitPirate@feddit.de
          10·
          1 year ago

          They are at the image of their president, arrogant and ungrateful.

          Look at Mr Worldwide over here who knows each and every Ukrainian.

          I’m just an european taxpayer pissed of!

          Sure.

        • shottymcb@lemm.ee
          3·
          1 year ago

          Is that the Ukrainians fault? They’re not the ones deciding how they’re being treated. They’re not the ones deciding how other refugees are treated either.

          Why are you mad at them instead of the people making those decisions?

      • Blursty@lemmy.ml
        3·
        1 year ago

        They got rich by being crooks in the most corrupt country in Europe. They fled the country they ruined and turned into a shithole vassal state of the USA. These are the worst Ukraine has to offer.

        • figaro@lemdro.id
          10·
          1 year ago

          I’m sorry you have so much hate for people you do not understand. Genuinely, it might be better to see people as just people, and not representatives of the worst parts of the governments they happened to be born under.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldBEnglish
    7·
    1 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    Nearly three months since launching a much vaunted counteroffensive using hundreds of billions of dollars of Western military equipment, Ukraine has recaptured more than a dozen villages but has yet to penetrate Russia’s main defences.

    Stories in the New York Times, Washington Post and other news organisations last week quoted U.S. and other Western officials as suggesting the offensive was falling short of expectations.

    Ukrainian commanders say they are moving slowly on purpose, degrading Russia’s defences and logistics to reduce losses when they finally attack at full strength.

    After months of fighting their way through heavy minefields, Ukraine’s forces have finally reached the main Russian defensive lines in recent days, south of the village of Robotyne which they captured last week in Western Zaporizhzhia region.

    They are now advancing in an area between the nearby villages of Novopokropivka and Verbove, looking for a way around the anti-tank ditches and rows of concrete pyramids known as dragon’s teeth that form Russia’s main fortifications visible from space.

    Russia is also facing the aftermath of a mutiny two months ago by Wagner, a private army that had formed the main attack force of its own winter offensive earlier this year.

    The original article contains 801 words, the summary contains 197 words. Saved 75%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
    6·
    1 year ago

    What a coincidence, “shut up” is what I tell people who can’t stop talking about Ukraine and Russia.