well they didn’t do it through political reformation, they did it through fantasy tech. Socialism is quite easy when you have replicators that can make pretty much anything you could ever desire on the spot.
They did do it through political reformation though. The replicators came ~200 years after getting rid of money.
The show this clip is from is set in a time before they had the replicator tech, even.
EDIT: It’s set before they perfected it, at least. They don’t refer to it as replicators but DIS and the other new prequel shows have fleshed out some of the precursor tech for the replicator in that time.
Canonically they can say whatever they want to make the federation/humans paragons.
My point is, if we had essentially an infinite supply of food and other goods, wouldn’t you feel more comfortable supporting people who would “bring about” that society? Wouldn’t you feel a moral imperative to support such a society? Fantasy tech makes it easy (although perhaps not inevitable).
that’s all i’m trying to say really. The common reservations people have with socialism are pretty much nullified with tech like replicators.
capitalists would not and do not which is why capitalism persists today let alone some future.
what capitalists want doesn’t matter if enough of the proletariat are in favor of socialism. In a world with replicators that would be the vast majority of people, even ones who were hesitant such as yourself.
Because they’re are multiple storylines about unmitigated capitalism being evil with the plot hinging around replicator technology and the fact the galaxy is not post scarcity. The federation is and several species and organizations are but as a whole the galaxy isn’t. Humans specifically are almost never painted in the best light especially when it comes to capitalism and pre starfleet society.
That’s your opinion and one that is largely hinged on humanity being at it’s core altruistic which btw starfleet does not agree with you on.
Yes it does, the people with the money have the most power, this hasn’t changed and canonically the same is true in universe again they’re major multi series story arks.
even ones who were hesitant such as yourself.
There’s that assumption again, pointing out what is is does not imply support thereof but sure, strawman it up if you feel that necessary.
There’s that assumption again, pointing out what is is does not imply support thereof but sure, strawman it up if you feel that necessary.
Look we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on everything else, but i take exception to being accused of straw manning you.
This is no straw man. you said you do not support socialist politicians NOW, but you would if replicators existed. Please clarify if you misspoke.
You: “that society is ideal but I don’t like anyone that would being about that society I just want to snap my fingers and end up in post scarcity utopia.”
Me: “My point is, if we had essentially an infinite supply of food and other goods, wouldn’t you feel more comfortable supporting people who would “bring about” that society? Wouldn’t you feel a moral imperative to support such a society?”
You get you’re in a starfleet sub right, we’re 100% talking about storylines. It doesn’t change anything either way but still.
That’s literally the plot of the movement towards the federation… Again part of a foundational storyline. If the people who are withholding the replicators don’t want you to have them you won’t have them given the fact they could create robots and weapons until the end of time and people tend to be much easier to kill and harder to replace than an automaton anyway.
Point to where I said I do not support socialist politicians. I’ll wait, I imagine your incredible lack of imagination led you to believe the example of cognitive dissonance in my original comment was my actual opinion…
I would feel more comfortable supporting people who would bring about that society, capitalists would not. Hence your clipping of the comment to fit your narrative that didn’t make sense of you read the whole comment.
Ed: for reference:
I would, capitalists would not and do not which is why capitalism persists today let alone some future.
You get you’re in a starfleet sub right, we’re 100% talking about storylines. It doesn’t change anything either way but still.
you get that we can have discussions and make comments that don’t directly relate to any storylines, right?
Point to where I said I do not support socialist politicians. I’ll wait, I imagine your incredible lack of imagination led you to believe the example of cognitive dissonance in my original comment was my actual opinion…
So you’re saying this isn’t your opinion? How am I supposed to know that? This is something you could have clarified in the earlier post where i quoted it.
“that society is ideal but I don’t like anyone that would being about that society"
well they didn’t do it through political reformation, they did it through fantasy tech. Socialism is quite easy when you have replicators that can make pretty much anything you could ever desire on the spot.
They did do it through political reformation though. The replicators came ~200 years after getting rid of money.
The show this clip is from is set in a time before they had the replicator tech, even.
EDIT: It’s set before they perfected it, at least. They don’t refer to it as replicators but DIS and the other new prequel shows have fleshed out some of the precursor tech for the replicator in that time.
Fantasy tech that canonically is tightly controlled by various races with better tech and a capitalist system.
Canonically they can say whatever they want to make the federation/humans paragons.
My point is, if we had essentially an infinite supply of food and other goods, wouldn’t you feel more comfortable supporting people who would “bring about” that society? Wouldn’t you feel a moral imperative to support such a society? Fantasy tech makes it easy (although perhaps not inevitable).
It’s quite the opposite but sure.
I would, capitalists would not and do not which is why capitalism persists today let alone some future.
how would it be the opposite?
that’s all i’m trying to say really. The common reservations people have with socialism are pretty much nullified with tech like replicators.
what capitalists want doesn’t matter if enough of the proletariat are in favor of socialism. In a world with replicators that would be the vast majority of people, even ones who were hesitant such as yourself.
Because they’re are multiple storylines about unmitigated capitalism being evil with the plot hinging around replicator technology and the fact the galaxy is not post scarcity. The federation is and several species and organizations are but as a whole the galaxy isn’t. Humans specifically are almost never painted in the best light especially when it comes to capitalism and pre starfleet society.
That’s your opinion and one that is largely hinged on humanity being at it’s core altruistic which btw starfleet does not agree with you on.
Yes it does, the people with the money have the most power, this hasn’t changed and canonically the same is true in universe again they’re major multi series story arks.
There’s that assumption again, pointing out what is is does not imply support thereof but sure, strawman it up if you feel that necessary.
Look we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on everything else, but i take exception to being accused of straw manning you. This is no straw man. you said you do not support socialist politicians NOW, but you would if replicators existed. Please clarify if you misspoke.
You: “that society is ideal but I don’t like anyone that would being about that society I just want to snap my fingers and end up in post scarcity utopia.”
Me: “My point is, if we had essentially an infinite supply of food and other goods, wouldn’t you feel more comfortable supporting people who would “bring about” that society? Wouldn’t you feel a moral imperative to support such a society?”
You: “I would”
You get you’re in a starfleet sub right, we’re 100% talking about storylines. It doesn’t change anything either way but still.
That’s literally the plot of the movement towards the federation… Again part of a foundational storyline. If the people who are withholding the replicators don’t want you to have them you won’t have them given the fact they could create robots and weapons until the end of time and people tend to be much easier to kill and harder to replace than an automaton anyway.
Point to where I said I do not support socialist politicians. I’ll wait, I imagine your incredible lack of imagination led you to believe the example of cognitive dissonance in my original comment was my actual opinion…
I would feel more comfortable supporting people who would bring about that society, capitalists would not. Hence your clipping of the comment to fit your narrative that didn’t make sense of you read the whole comment.
Ed: for reference:
you get that we can have discussions and make comments that don’t directly relate to any storylines, right?
So you’re saying this isn’t your opinion? How am I supposed to know that? This is something you could have clarified in the earlier post where i quoted it.
“that society is ideal but I don’t like anyone that would being about that society"