Lifelong athlete. 37yr old male. College baseball player. Have been lifting weights for 15 years. Very consistent with my diet, in fact I have my diet dialed in and track calories eat nothing but whole foods.
I’ve been running for over a year, off and on due to calf and achilles injuries but mostly on. I am on week 10 of a 20-week half marathon plan.
If you look at me, I look very fit. People assume I am very fit because I have decent muscle mass and I’m pretty lean (around 10-11%bf right now). But I really struggle running. I just ran a 7-miler for my long run and it killed me. A freaking 12:53 pace, started at 5am and finished around 6:30am. I am deliberately running in zone 2 to build my endurance base using my Garmin watch and chest strap. I couldn’t have run any faster if I wanted to. Running so slow but my average heart rate was 149bpm. All of my other health factors are very good. 48bpm resting heart rate. 7-8 hours of sleep a night. Weight lifting 3 days a week. Running 3 days a week. All blood work in January was great.
Before I focused on my endurance I got my mile time down to 7:33 at around 80-90% effort. I just feel like I should have a better base by now and even though building the mileage takes time I feel like I’m way too slow for how long I’ve been running.
Am I doing something wrong? Any advice or feedback for me?
A few thoughts for you, OP:
1). Depending on where you are in the world it’s hot as fuck right now. For me, this morning was miserable. I kept my pace easy, I took a couple breaks, but I hit my miles. Sometimes the summer is something that you survive and then enjoy the endurance gains in the fall.
2). What’s your typical volume? Is a 7-mile run more than 25% of your weekly volume? If it is, you might scale that back. Overall, for a new runner, the most important thing is building your weekly volume. And it should all be easy. Try to get to 35 comfortable miles a week before you add in workouts or anything else. These will help, but not nearly as much as just running more. Specificity is a thing, after all.
3). Do you like running? I’m not going to try and talk you out of something that I really enjoy, but sometimes I take a brain break and swim, or ride my bike. I usually come back pretty refreshed. If you’re just beat, maybe give that a shot?
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, in the Texas Heat even at 5am it’s about 88F and sometimes 90%+ humidity. It’s nasty.
The last 4 weeks average is 10 miles a week. So, not much volume.
I want to enjoy running. I enjoy almost all fitness activities. I really enjoy improving performance. Even though I don’t “love” running, I like it enough and want to be good at it enough that I’ll stick with it. I’m the type of person that obsessed over a goal or something I’m passionate about.
Ok. If you enjoy fitness and want to run, I’m gonna be real with you.
Everybody struggles with heat. I don’t really have much more to say about it than that. Maybe give yourself a little grace. You got out there and you logged your miles. Nice. 👍🏻
At ten miles a week you don’t need a long run. Certainly not one that’s 70% of your weekly volume. Two 3 mile runs and one 4 mile run are your jam right now. Next week, add a mile. One 3 and two 4s. The week after that, add a mile. Four 3s. The next week, three 3s and a 4. And so on.
The key here is to build volume responsibly. No more than a 10% increase (or one mile) a week. This will help give your tendons, ligaments, and bones the time they need to get stronger. That process takes longer than you’d think.
Keep building up, slowly, until you get to 35 miles a week. Feel free to set aside nonsense like “zones” or “workouts” or anything else. These don’t matter to you now. It’s just you and the road. You keep your runs easy by asking yourself “is this hard?” If you ever think it is, slow down. Your pace doesn’t matter at all either. Only the miles and staying healthy.
Hollar back at me once you get to 35.
Thanks for the support. I’m going to take your advice but I just wanted to add that I’m on week 10 of building. It started with two 2 miles and a 3, and built up each week. I’ll just keep trucking along.
I’m very similar to you (I do actually love running though) in that I enjoy being good at sports, and challenging myself. I’m going to agree with the person above.
I’m usually one of those perky happy looking runners, and average an 8-8:30 pace on my big elevation change/most taxing runs. It hasn’t even been hot (by my standards) here, but it’s been EXCEPTIONALLY humid for my local (we were just preparing for a hurricane, which we never have here).
I’m STRUGGLING. My average pace on my normal routes is easily 0:30-1:00 per miles slower, and I feel like I’m working a LOT harder. It’s killing me to be slower. It’s messing with my head/confidence, but it’s totally normal. I have to keep telling myself that.
There was one day, immediately after the “hurricane” passed that was significantly cooler, and more importantly, nearly no humidity, and I was FAST, and it was so easy. Just keep with it, you’ll probably start setting PRs once the weather shifts to cooler/less humid.
Great set of questions that nailed the core problem, heat and lack of volume running. If you don’t have sufficient base running is going to be hard, base, is still going to be a fair amount of miles even at a good fitness level. Also hot is hard too. No matter the fitness level.
The only thing I haven’t seen people mention so far is breathing.
Make sure you are doing breathing exercises and that you can keep your breathing under control for your whole run. Once your breathing goes everything else will fall apart.
High heart rate and “struggling” makes me think this is a likely underlying cause.
Does “struggling” mean burning lungs and side stitches? If so it’s certainly this. If it’s just muscle fatigue it might also be hydration or electrolyte shortage.
Quick links on how to improve breathing while running: https://marathonhandbook.com/how-to-breathe-while-running/
My lungs aren’t burning at all. I have my breath still, it’s my legs
Maybe it’s your fast twitch vs slow twitch muscles composition? https://blog.nasm.org/fitness/fast-twitch-vs-slow-twitch
Hard to say since you state you do other activities that would usually indicate a balanced ratio, but form of those activities can influence whether one type or the other is preferred in muscle growth… You did say sprinting short distances isn’t an issue, when you do weight training is it burst lift or slow reps?
Genetics is a big component because you most likely developed a form complimentary to your physique, meaning you do faster lifts and fewer sets because you have more type II, which then encourages growth of type II. Nothing wrong with this form or exercise approach, but it means you’re adapted to bursts of activity instead of longer duration activity. So it’d take a longer timeframe to try to retrain your muscles (if you’d even want to).
Hard to diagnose over an internet forum, a qualified trainer should be able to advise better
Edit: actually looking into it more, baseball is a sport that heavily prioritizes fast-twitch. If you trained for that in your formative growth years you likely do have an imbalance favoring type II over type I. Again: Check with a trainer over an internet stranger. But adjusting your strength training to favor typeI development could yield benefits to your distance running… That would require a multi-week period to see changes though :(
Very interesting. Thanks for the feedback.
I’m able to breath in through my nose and out of my mouth for the entire run, nearly every run. I’ll have to look up anything else.
My weight training coach used to tell some of the guys to 2 two regular breaths in through the nose, then one through the mouth. Couldn’t hurt to try. Good luck friend
I use the nose-breathe-in-for-3-steps and mouth-breathe-out-for-2-steps which seems to work for me. If I find myself struggling and notice I’m not doing this then starting seems to calm my breathing again. I can just about do it without thinking now. I definitely struggle with the leg stamina thing though. Only been running regularly (3x week) for 8 months.
Thanks. I’ve been using one breathe in and out every 4 steps.
I’m not a good runner either but a few things helped me.
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Increasing my cadence.
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Slightly leaning my body forward.
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Doing exercises that train my legs to move a certain way during a stride. Basically working on my running form.
Thanks for the tips. I average around 160-180spm. I do a lot of barbell squats and lunges but I’m not sure if that actually makes my hip flexors tighter decreasing my stride performance?
I’m sure there are a lot of other exercises but here’s one video that shows some. I just searched “exercises to improve running form”.
https://youtu.be/_kGESn8ArrU?si=1-HVX-dAtKuyMsEo
Edit: I believe that’s already a good cadence.
Hey, I just ran my first marathon and am recovering. I had some knee pain so I thought it might be helpful to switch my form.
I’ve been trying to lean forward and land mid-foot with a faster cadence than previously.
It’s been super tiring and I find myself very fatigued. Do you think it’s a case of needing to get used to new muscle groups being worked or that I need to do more supplemental strength training?
Thanks!
It definitely takes time. I switched from heel striking to mid foot in my early 20s and it took a year to get a steady cadence for distance running. Sprinting took even longer. Take it slow. Getting used to adjusting your speed yet maintaining the same cadence your legs require (~180spm) can be tricky, but I find it much more efficient.
One thing that helped is making sure all my shoes are zero drop. Walking around all day every day using similar muscles to running really helped build my feet and ankle muscles up.
I have not had a joint related leg injury in the 10 years since I switched. Rolled ankles are a thing of the past. My body instinctively reacts quickly enough to prevent the sprain.
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A few things:
- You started at 5 am: early morning runs can be very very sluggish even for people who are good at running.
- 10 miles a week, while respectable, is simply not a lot. Just keep increasing, slowly, the weakly volume.
- There’s an overemphasis lately on the easy runs. Sometimes you should get tired. Sometimes very tired. Maybe once every 2 weeks, since you’re only running 3x a week. Consider some fartleks.
Edit: some additions:
- Almost against the previous point but not really: while you should get very tired sometimes, easy runs have to feel easy/comfortable. Forget what your watch is telling you about heart rates and zones and all that. Listen to your body.
5.Your legs getting tired could be a number of things: lactate build up (going too fast),not enough recovery from harder runs/leg strength workouts, muscle fatigue from being unconditioned to longer runs (solution is also to just keep running more and easy).
- Have patiente. Don’t force a pace that is not there yet, let it come naturally as a consequence of sustainable long term training.
Thank you for the feedback. Maybe my muscles are just not conditioned for endurance and that’s why I’m making slower progress. I’ll really consider listening to my body instead of my watch.
Do you do any speed work? Just doing Z2 work will improve your endurance, for sure, but you should include some Z4/Z5 sprints and intervals if you want increase speed.
I might do this.
If you didn’t eat anything before and are not used to morning runs it can be very hard on your body energy wise. Your glycogen levels could be low. When I first started doing long morning runs when the last time I ate was the night before I’d hit a wall. Eventually my body adapted and I was able to run 18 miles on an empty stomach. If you’re not trying to lose weight or train your body to operate with lower glycol levels there is not much of a reason to run on an empty stomach.
Thanks. I’m trying to loose body fat and improve my running. I have a good amount of lean muscle, 170lbs at 5ft 9in and around 10% body fat. You make a valid point and maybe my body hasn’t adapted yet. I am very used to training fasted, though, just not running it’s been weightlifting.
I’m no expert in cell biology but I get a completely different feeling from running hungry than I do from weight lifting hungry. For whatever reason I can do plenty of anaerobic lifting in the morning but running without any carbohydrates is much harder. That said, I can only take a very small amount of food when I run off I don’t want discomfort, e.g. a small amount of applesauce and a slice of deli ham or something.
For me heat & humidity would kill my endurance/pace, so i would focus on running in the winter (more bike/swim in hot months)
However since you run in the AM try raw dogging your run. Leave the Garmin and all accessories at home, and roll out.
Sometimes I would get way too over focused on what goals I wanted to achieve, and then seem to plateau without hitting them. That’s when I would “reset” my mental run. Clear out the cobwebs and just hit one foot in front of the other.
Remember that every run you are ahead of the game period.
Remember that training plans are generally made up for the average athlete, and each one of us may need a different way of training. (flat terrain? hills? dirt or paved roads, etc.)
Fair point. I’m considering getting a coach but I want to try and improve as much as I can by myself. My distance is improving, so I guess that would say my endurance is improving, but I’m so slow. I feel like people just getting into exercise and people who are very unhealthy and unfit can probably run at the same pace I’m at.
I have nothing to add to this other than to tell you I’m in the exact same boat as you. I played football and rugby in highschool and I was a really good athlete, and I was super lean, 6’0 and about 175 pounds.
I could not fucking run long distances to save my life, whenever we did runs in practices I was struggling back with all the fat dudes, where the other skinny guys like me were not even breaking a sweat finishing so fast. I was the fastest sprinter on the team too, so it wasn’t my athleticism holding me back or anything.
I’ve never really figured out why, I think I might have some form of asthma or something.
So similar. In high school and college ball, I was ALWAYS at the back of the pack with the “fat guys”. I have wondered if I have something biologically that makes it so, or if I’m just a punk and need to suck it up and run more to get better. I guess I’ll find out, lol!
Another random piece to add, maybe it will help you out too - I have ridiculously flat feet. Like literally no arch in the slightest, and it kinda fucked my knees and hips up a little bit. My feet also naturally point outwards when I’m standing too, so I’m wondering if maybe my running mechanics are fucked because of that, and maybe it takes me way more energy to jog than a person with normal feet? But I still don’t really get it, because like I said, I was a faster sprinter than 99% of people I met, only track dudes were faster than me.
Coincidentally, I have small, wide feet.
Don’t run through pain. Injuries happen from overuse of tendons and ligaments and they let you know beforehand.
Also going slow is (5/10 effort) is the name of the game until 30m per week. Less speed means less injury buildup means more miles per week which translates to more aerobic speed. Sprinkle in one long run per week at 20-30% of weekly volume when the time comes. Couple that with only increasing mileage 10% per week and you’ll do well without injury.
For me switching the mindset from “run fast/hard” to “run more” increased my progress 3-4x faster while being easier. :)
This is awesome I was literally thinking this on my run this morning
I feel like the running version of a Honda Civic with a body kit, exhaust, and hood scoop. I look fast, but still slow.
I think this falls in the technique group— I improved my stats quite a bit by focusing on using glutes for power. Easiest way to do this was to do a squat routine (one that I’d feel a bit) the day before so that I could isolate the glutes better during running day.
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Well, I’m not in distress or struggling necessarily from a cardio standpoint. It’s my knees, ankles, and calves that seems to wear down. Granted, I could be running too fast for my real zone 2 since I’m using my watch and HR strap and not a lactate test, but I recover from my runs pretty quickly in my 5 Min cool down walk.
Hi there, you didn’t mention whether you have any speed training in your running plan. If not, i would look into adding in maybe one day of tempo run or intervals.
No, I don’t right now. The reason is I tried two Garmin coaching plans and both times lead to injuries of my calf/achilles in my left leg. So I had to stop both programs after 3 or 4 weeks (which included speed runs) and now I’m just trying to build a better base.
What is your zone 2 range? It should feel easy, as in able to keep a conversation going, no huffing and puffing.
My zone 2 is 136-158bpm. It starts off that way, I can keep a conversation, but then after about 3 or 4 miles it gets close to zone 3 and I can talk for sure but it’s my legs that just can’t move any faster. My feet, ankles, and knees start to hurt. I’m not huffing and puffing at the end of a run, I’m winded, but I can talk right after and keep a conversation. I’m just so slow and my legs drag.
It sounds like you might be pushing yourself too hard for zone 2. Is it a 4 zone or 5 zone setup? 136-158 seems wide and high to me. I’d recommend lowering your target HR and try to keep constant effort, which means slowing down as you go further. You may need to take a shorter shuffling like stride to keep a low HR and maybe even walk a bit if it climbs too high. You’ve only been at it for a year so go easy on yourself and listen to your body.
My Garmin shows my lactate threshold at 167bpm.
- Z1 112-138
- Z2 138-153
- Z3 153-165
- Z4 165-172
- Z5 172-187
I’m not saying your wrong, I just cant fathom going any slower and making progress. I guess my mind can’t reconcile walking actually improving my endurance after so many years of fitness. I guess I’m just being naive or ignorant.
This looks off to me. Do you know what method was used to calculate these zones? I’d say your main issue is your watch is giving you false expectations. I entered your values into a variety of calculators online (age, MHR, RHR) and they all somewhat line up for z2 around 130ish-140ish, maybe 145 max. Between this and the the description of how you feel, I’d say you are far past your actual zone 2. These models are just a starting point. I’m able to breathe comfortable through my nose the whole time in zone 2. If I push too hard it starts to feel like my feet and ankles have weights on them by the end of my run, which is lactic acid build up by pushing into anaerobic territory. Maybe try this lower range and see how it feels?
I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s the values Garmin gave me when it recalibrated me VO2 max. I’m considering getting a lactate test done to get my actual levels. You might be right though. I probably need to keep the heart rate under 140. Like you, when I get tired it’s really my feet and ankles and knees. Not my lungs.
your technique probably sucks, there is tons of content out there how to be a better more efficient runner by changing your technique
I’m sure it isn’t good. Im a mid-to-fore foot striker. But I don’t know how the rest of my form looks.
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On my last run, the 7-miler, it was an average of 159spm. That’s slow even for me. I normally am around 180spm.
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I’m not sure what’s more critical right now, a lactate test or gait analysis. Both are around $130USD, so I would prefer to pick one now and another later if they would be beneficial.
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