cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/37176575
Anyone studying anarchist cybernetics ? Or like some form of anarchist economics/planning ?
I general how would market be abolished in anarchist society, and what steps can be taken now to go towards that goal ?
Not sure what you mean with cybernetics but i have been working on a framework to move from the status quo of capital power to a needs based society where money is simply a measurement of global costs to build/consume something.
Its based on the awareness that modern money is just made up anyway. Banks can create new (fountainpen) money when they give out a new loan. This new money is then destroyed when its paid back. In theory that makes some sense but in reality old loans are refinanced with new ones to create an endless cycle with ever increasing deficits.
They need to do this because there is not enough money to run the entire economy in the modern age. Clearly comes from a mindset of their being a max quantity of money. And this limitation is not there for any purpose, its not connected to the ecological costs of our work it was inherited from a simpler time before we had machines that can do advanced maths for us.
Real numbers can go into the negative, and besides the fact you cant hold a negative quantity of something in your hand there is nothing mathematical wrong with that.
Profit = loss. When a company take a cut that is an extra costs for the global system.
So when i ever Finnish my manifesto, i propose to eventually allowing the numbers to go in zero.
When you consume or do something your still doing the math and counting it. But it wont matter you dont have enough of it.
When a factory costs x much to build than thats a measurement. It doesn’t require a profit stream to even out if we as a local society agree that this initial costs is worth the production.
Now this sound wild without the other details and tons of things need to happen before wel probably make that switch. But some spoilers.
Distribution centers shop at production based on the needs of the people they service. Production first looks to distribute in ratio of how many people each center serves. Then adjusts when actual demand is like to redirect a surpluss or in case if high demand repackage into smaller packages.
If a distribution center cant meet their local demand in any way they opt not to import or collect in storage till they do.
corporations right now can step into this system by doing what they are already doing except They count any loans aswell as profit as 2 measurements of economic loss.
In a transition there will be much double accounting, technically there the same numbers but as long as limited money exists we need to count everything both ways.
In transition it could start as a form of pension. Lower class old people cant waste more then billionaires are right now and we owe it to all human lives to spend their final years in dignity.
My system does not solve inequality, but makes it more transparent.
Neither does it guarantee a more self sufficient society but again it makes the costs of society transparent so we can move to a more self sufficient one.
I wasn’t ready to publicize this but i hope it answers your post.
Not sure what you mean with cybernetics
I’m still learning about it, reading Ashby’s book. In my mind it provides tools to design and analyze complex systems, and with that you could produce for needs without money.
They need to do this because there is not enough money to run the entire economy in the modern age.
Kinda get it, kinda not, can explain more ?
Profit = loss.
Is this in a sense that our current economic system is a zero sum game ?
Our industry is constantly growing, the amount of money does not grow to match that. And if they would then there is bickering who gets to create that new money.
So they created a system with the banks that is theoretically a zero sum game where no nation has a real advantage and new money can temporarily be created till its it accounted for when its paid back. The banks create the money for their client, if they trust the client will be able to pay it back in a reasonable time with interests.
But if the national deficits are any proof this zero sum game does not work. The deficits of nations only increase and everyone knows they cant be paid off. To pay off of the old loans and the interests we just make new loans and we somehow don’t consider it a problem that we rely on more and more loans over time.
There is technically nothing stopping a nation from just ignoring the deficit and use infinite money except massive backlash and peer pressure from outer countries.
But because we are factually wasting so much, being so unsustainable and on the brink of self-annihilation. Would it really matter if governments just spend as their civilians actually need like housing and food for the poor? Is that worse than what shell is doing?
Just because the money is infinite doesn’t mean this system has no limits because in total we will always be contextualized by available production and how many people want to work to produce it. The economic puzzle turns from a financial one to a logistical one.
I am using terminology like nation loosely here. Could be local collectives, could be a mom-ai
What i mean with profit = loss is that when a company makes profit, it’s at least partly to do new things with. But then they are basically extracting money from the economy without perse needing it at that point. Then when they do invest in a new building the costs are hidden in that past profit and because everything is for profit the price wont lower after that project the’ll still asking more then actually costs.
In my system you measure the cost to produce and that is a fixed value of measurements that is passed on the consumer. Any deviation is a different kind of loss that should be measured separately. Optionally also passed down like “stored at x for 6 months” is an additional costs but you can never say an item suddenly costs less because market changes because then you would be saying that suddenly the ecological costs for those materials no longer matters.