U.S. children and teens are more likely to die because of guns than car crashes, drug overdoses and cancer.
Welp, I looked it up, and one study focused on 14 and younger, about a thousand deaths by car crash, and one focused on 13 to 19, with about 3000 deaths, so even combined and ignoring the overlap in the age range of the studies and going over the age of 18, 15% more kids in the US are getting killed by guns than car crashes, and that gap is widening each year.
Car crashes, ODs and cancer fatalities among minors are far lower than I thought. Just as an aside.
It might seem low, but when looking at statistics about fatalities, it’s a good idea to keep in mind the many injured and potentially permanently disabled that aren’t included.
Medical professionals can work magic, and that is great. But non-fatal car crash, overdose, cancer, and gun injuries can also be tragic, both short and long term. Diminished mental capacity, loss of limbs or physical abilities, lifelong pain, the list goes on…
I had a friend in high school who accidentally shot himself with a gun when he was a small child. He’s in a wheelchair for life.
I’m not American, I’m Canadian. Talking about the statistics is important but holy fucking shit it’s depressing. Any more than 0 accidental deaths is too many.
Got it. More depressing is that most of those gun deaths are not an accident.
It’s something like 2%, the other 98% are people choosing to shoot other people.
Just remember guns don’t kill toddlers, toddlers kill toddlers.
Toddlers are lunatics, we’re just lucky they’re so small and uncoordinated
Let’s look at the numbers around NBC’s claim here. 4752 children killed by guns (or toddlers with guns) in 2021. There are 73 million children in the USA. That’s only 0.0065% of children in America killed.
99.99% of children in the USA were not killed by guns in 2021.
I’m convinced that you think you have made a compelling argument for something.
It’s so weird to file 18 and 19 year olds under “children”. Aren’t 18+ already considered adults and their lifestyle is going to be more risky than an actual child in grade school?
If you kept it at actual “minors”, I wonder how this data would look.
It’s kind of like saying that car accidents are a major cause of death in children because they drive too fast.
The article discusses this.
Older adolescents, ages 15 to 19, accounted for 82.6% of gun-related deaths in 2021.
Poking around the CDC website adolescence is defined in multiple ways but generally includes ages 12-19, so might be better described as “teens” even though 18+ is a legal adult. I think it’s being treated here as more of a developmental stage than a legal one.
Digging into it by age, from 2018-2021 firearms made up 2,149 out of 22,545 total deaths (~9%) for the age range 5-14 in the US. Looking at 15-19 this increases significantly to 13,321 out of 46,323 total deaths (~29%). This corresponds to increases in both homicide and suicide by firearm for older adolescents.
Quoting this just to make the point that firearms do have differing impacts on younger and older children, and that extends to race and income level as well. But whether guns are the leading cause of death for an age group or not, the end result is the same: more dead kids.
I’m more interested right now in the obvious agenda.
I’m not saying that child death’s aren’t up or that we shouldn’t do more to protect them but when citing data this way, I get the very strong feeling that it’s being made to look worse than it is on purpose. The majority are from suicides and murder fatalities are extreme in the 18-19 year old bracket.
Why on earth does the metric include 18 and 19 year olds as children if not for making something look worse.
The dictionary defines a child as a person between birth and puberty. Or not having attained the age of legal majority.
It’s similar to when a 10 year old gets shot by the police, and then the news conference later has the police referring the 10 year old victim as “a young man” instead of “the child”. Does it not feel like they’re trying to achieve something?
It’s the Same Old Same Old “THINK OF THE CHILDREN” authoritarian push to limit the freedoms of the citizenry. Communists, Terrorists, Pedophiles, and Satanists are all coming to get your babies and only Big Brother can save you by restricting your naughty freedoms.
The reality is that if you look at the overall statistics, 99.9999% of children aged 0-18 in the USA are unaffected by gun violence. So I am not compelled to trade any of my freedom for more alleged safety.
Why on earth does the metric include 18 and 19 year olds as children if not for making something look worse.
Honestly, I tried pretty hard to find a good reason and other than the fact that the CDC groups data into <1, 1-4, 5-9, 10-14, and 15-19 age ranges there’s no real explanation. You could go up to 14, and then get individual year data up to 17/18 whatever the cutoff.
I wouldn’t say it’s totally dishonest because it is baked into the data and the CDC considers them developmentally similar, but I think it also an issue NBC wasn’t too interested in fixing because it makes the article’s argument seem more convincing.
Yeah, it’s misleading. Especially considering the hot topic use of firearms.
Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, we can agree that data should be free of the organization present here. The discussion isn’t helped by this interpretation of the interpretation and it surely needs helping.
deleted by creator
I’m sorry, but the ability to defend myself and my family isn’t a hobby. It’s what gave my mother the ability to fend off a guy with a knife last year. You want her to fight him off with her bare hands in the parking lot? I had a friend who was almost gang raped by three men in an alley. She now carries a giant gun in her purse and you want her defenseless?
Not everyone has the luxury of police around the corner or to see guns as a hobby like you do. Especially the population of “children” you’re referring to. Let me shed some light for you.
The fact is that these stats aren’t a majority school shootings. These homicides are male inner city black ADULT youth who are given the worst cards in life and they have gotten zero attention. This is gang violence politicized.
The pandemic hit this population hardest and the facts show it here. Look at deaths from ALL types of things and it’s gone up in this particular minority population. It’s disheartening because it’s been like this for decades and people are thinking it would be solved if only you could remove the guns.
The appropriate response is (if you’re not already) supporting programs and services that help people who are suffering from poverty and mental health illness. Not making my family and friends defenseless.
Edit - My mother wanted to add that she also peppered sprayed the guy the week before. He came back.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I honestly want you to enumerate them because discussion helps and is an opportunity to progress the ideas. Just because we disagree, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t share the ideas. I enjoy discussion and I try hard to not be inflammatory or rude.
You should tell me where the “flags” are so I can look back and think on it.
To summarize:
-
The article discusses a CDC report about stats on children which includes adults, and discusses homicides of black inner city adolescents, and suicides of white adolelescents that are on the rise since the pandemic. The loss of life is terrible.
-
Self defense is a right, not a hobby. The potential loss of life is terrible.
-
Between #1 and #2, you and I have to navigate to find a solution that satisfies both of us.
-
We can agree that any life lost to anything is too much.
I wish you the best.
-
The numbers are just weird in that article.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
I am going to read it again and see where their data is sourced.Ok, it seems that Pew and NBC used CDC stats. Still, NBC is not presenting data in a very informative way.
Any deaths are bad, but I prefer to see the whole picture and not what is cherry picked for a news article.
Of course they not, because its not about the info or the facts, its about the agenda…
Removed by mod
They’re dead 18 year olds. If my 18 year old child died, I wouldn’t debate their age or the statistics.
More than 1 accidental death is 1 too many.
I’m not arguing that though. I totally agree that any loss of life is wrong.
And the use of child in your context is different from the use of child in the context of this discussion.
Yes, but only in the US and in war zones. Actually, usually less in war zones.
Removed by mod
Both parties are equally bad, huh?
Democrats want to keep school funding local so that property taxes in wealthy areas aren’t funding schools in poor areas, ensuring that wealthy areas have access to better schools
I’ve seen D’s increasingly propose more state and national funding for schools, exactly the opposite of your claim. That’s in addition to increased state and federal funding for expanding pre-school, for school lunches, for at least some free college
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
My kid is learning to drive and I was surprised he doesn’t need insurance. But the reason is I’m still the “driver” while he is operating the car. Im responsible for issues, my insurance pays any claim, and of course I can’t have a couple beers despite not being behind the wheel. We have an example
Why can’t we model responsible Gun ownership after cars and driving?
Removed by mod
Ok, then free speech. Also in the Bill of Rights as an individual right the government can’t infringe.
Yet there are limits, there are consequences, non-government entities do not need to abide. The classic example is you can’t yell “FIRE!” In a crowded theater. Your right to free speech ends when it endangers someone else.
Similarly, your right to bear arms should be limited when it endangers someone. If you bring a weapon to a bar, a crowded space, carry in a city, brandish it during road rage, or when someone rings the doorbell, or if someone is able to access your weapon or you keep your ammo in the same place as your weapon, or you let someone use it without training, or you do something stupid when people are around, or you hunt by. Blasting away at every rustling bush, or you hunt where your bullet can co e down where there are people, then you are endangering people. You not respecting the tool and its capabilities shows that you are not fit to carry. There are consequences, and they need to happen before you actually hurt or kill someone
Removed by mod
or you keep your ammo in the same place as your weapon, …Isn’t that the entire point of having a firearm if you intend to use it to defend your life?
Sure, that’s the big contradiction n trying to keep a firearm for self-defense. If it’s readily accessible, odds are more likely someone will be shot on accident or a moment of emotion, than that you’ll defend yourself. If it’s locked up, with the ammo elsewhere, you’re following best practices to keep your family and friends, and yourself safe, but then can’t use it to defend yourself
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
i don’t remember guns being able to pull the trigger, i thought somebody else had to do that
somebody
Yup. But you know who doesn’t shoot kids? The people that don’t have guns.
Removed by mod
Know who else doesn’t have guns? Adult gang members
In countries where it’s almost impossible to get one
Yeah remember when Adam Lanza killed 26 people (mostly kids!) with a ball peen hammer? Or how sometimes kids accidentally stab their friends to death with their dad’s chef knife they found unsecured. I hate it when that happens.
Removed by mod
You are using the tired old fallacious gunnit claims about gun deaths only being “gang killings”, which even the article in question thoroughly refutes.
Trying to solve it by taking away the guns is like trying to cure tuberculosis with Robitussin. It hasn’t worked, doesn’t work, can’t work.
Funny how it works in almost all other countries (and certainly in all other rich Western countries) but the US though.
the overwhelming majority of minors killing and being killed with guns are directly involved in criminal gangs.
Citation needed.
majority of minors killing and being killed with guns are directly involved in criminal gangs. Accidents are rare; school shooting deaths rarer still.
Just imagine living in a civilized country instead, where those things basically don’t happen.
Removed by mod
Aside from natural disasters that tends to be true for a lot of things that kill people. And I’m pretty sure we still talk about those.
Almost like we put outrageous exceptions on guns vs all other kinds of dangerous tools we use.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
The overwhelming majority of kids killing and killed with guns are associated with criminal gangs
CDC numbers say that is patently untrue (scroll up to see the comment posting actual data), so where are you getting that from?
I swear so many of these people can’t tell the difference between reality and what they see in TV and movies. QAnon even posted previously that were living in some giant movie production so these people must have taken that to heart.
Taking all the guns on the planet will do nothing to stop adult criminals leading children to slaughter.
If only there were other countries on earth that had both criminals AND stricter gun laws where we could see if reducing the number of guns saves children’s lives despite not eradicating criminal activity. And only if, I don’t know, social scientists had analyzed it systematically.
Oh, wait.
Among comparably large and wealthy countries, Canada has the second highest child and teen firearm death rate to the U.S. However, Canada generally has more restrictive firearm laws and regulates access to guns at the federal level.
If the child and teen firearm mortality rate in the U.S. had been brought down to rates seen in Canada, we estimate that approximately 30,000 children’s and teenagers’ lives in the U.S. would have been saved since 2010 (an average of about 2,500 lives per year). This would have reduced the total number of child and teenage deaths from all causes in the U.S. by 13%.
Removed by mod
Sure, income inequality and poverty are drivers of all forms of crime. And the US in addition to uniquely lax gun restrictions also has uniquely terrible social support.
But if you look at the above article you’ll see this:
Even so, the child firearm mortality rate in the U.S. (3.7 per 100,000 people ages 1-17) is 5.5 times the child and teen mortality rate in Canada (0.6 per 100,000 people ages 1-19).
Guns kill children in the US at a rate 5.5 times higher than all causes of child death in Canada. And it is our closest peer, in other wealthy countries this would be even more lopsided. We can talk about why that is, and there are many reasons including social inequalities, but if you’re not considering access to guns a driver of gun deaths plus the abundance of published scientific evidence that supports this, you’re not approaching this issue honestly.
Removed by mod
I reject the idea that the US should be considered a “wealthy” country in this context: the areas of the US with economic statues comparable to Canada, or Europe, have violent crime rates and gun crime rates comparable to Canada, or Europe
This is not true. Our state with the lowest gun death rate (Massachusetts 3.4/100k) still has an over 50% higher rate than all of Canada (2.1) and fairs worse when compared to other wealthy nations Source
I’m not going to argue on any other point because I’m not going to argue against universal healthcare? It’s ok to want two good things.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Your claim is a blatant lie. That is a fact. Your feelings have made you concoct a blatant lie which you have repeated countless times in this thread.
Removed by mod
Please show your proof for this statement.
“… the simplistic motivations behind gang violence …”
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
The “mentor” scenario which you have dreamed up and repeated ad nauseam in this thread, does not provide an actual explanation for by far the majority of gun deaths mentioned in the article.
The overwhelming majority of kids killing and killed with guns are associated with criminal gangs,
This is a blatant lie, and it does not get more true just because you repeat it countless times.
The problem is the free and unchecked availability of guns.
It’s hard to trigger a gun that does not exist.
Not many are being shot from walking around saying “bang”.
It’s a shared experience. It’s like a lot things in life. Crack doesn’t smoke itself and wives don’t beat themselves up. It’s almost like their are more complicated things than useless reduction rhetoric of a mindless fool.
You’re exactly right. And notice how instead of trying to eradicate crack from the earth, instead we’re treating people that abuse it and trying to stop people from doing so in the first place.
The same is said for alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Don’t get me wrong - harsher restrictions need to be put in place. But as you said, it’s complicated.
Even though a lot of gunnits certainly behaves that way, guns aren’t actually drugs and can’t be compared to drugs in any shape or form.
Gladius was the one who compared them to drugs. I was just following their analogy.
Thanks for agreeing. It makes my life easier.
Meth can’t smoke itself!
But what about the drag queens??
Firearms have no place in a household. Anybody who defends it is just a closeted gun nut.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
So let me get this straight. I’m expected to believe more kids are dying from guns than overdose? Based on a “study” that NBC news didn’t even deign to put a citation to in their article?? Iv never met anyone who died of gun violence.Iv And more than 20 who OD’d before turning 18. The verbiage. Not a new study. A “new analysis” of the data that again they dont provide a single citation to. The clear partisan language targeting lack of legislation as the reason for people dying instead of any mention of the real issue. Mental health.
Its NBC news. I dont expect real journalism from these guys.
deleted by creator
Gangs have replaced the family unit in many poor areas. Not because the people are more criminal, but because it’s a self reinforcing loop. Anyone who can leaves the area, single parent households are common because many of the fathers are in jail or killed. This leaves Gangs as both a source of male role models and income for children, which leads to more getting killed or jailed.
Gangs use children for higher risk activities, because they get lighter sentences if caught. Kids that do time are then more dependent on gangs for support as legitimate work is harder to find.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Donald O’Biden
I wonder how many children would have died if there were no firearms in private hands???
The obvious solution here is to give children grenade launchers. Trust me, I’m an expert.
