- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
Summary
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez criticized Elon Musk after he made a gesture during Trump’s inauguration resembling a Nazi salute.
Musk and his allies dismissed the comparison, calling such accusations exaggerated.
Ocasio-Cortez, however, called the gesture unacceptable, emphasizing America’s history of opposing Nazis and the Confederacy.
She also condemned the Anti-Defamation League for defending Musk, accusing it of losing credibility.
Her comments sparked broader debate on symbols, gestures, and their implications amid Trump’s return to office.
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It didn’t resemble a Nazi salute. It was a Nazi salute.
Yeah all these media sources keep saying things like “a day after Musk used an arm gesture, twice, that resembled the Roman salute adopted by the Nazis.”
It’s blatantly obvious that they’re afraid of getting sued. Kind of like instead of saying someone lied, they’ll soften it up to say they made a statement that some fact checkers may disagree with.
I remember Robert Evans from BTB saying that when he worked in journalism, ANY story on a rich person was automatically followed up on by a lawsuit from the person in question, so they’d have legal on a retainer ready to respond.
Yup. Twice in a row. Exactly as the Nazis did it.
Stand to attention facing the crowd. Hand to chest, then full extension. Turn around to face the Fuhrer, or if he isn’t there, the Nazi flag. Then stand to attention and sieg heil again.
He did it. It’s not debatable. Don’t engage in debate with bad actors attempting to rewrite this history. The richest man in the world, who will act in an official capacity in the White House, is openly a Nazi. Because you are a Nazi if you perform a Nazi salute.
Yeah, he did it a second time to assure everyone of this.
He did it better the second time around.
The first time looked a little awkward (though definitely recognizable as a Nazi salute.) The second one was spot on.
Behold the one prominent US politician with any principles.
And for that she will never be allowed near any real power…
It’s one of the reasons reactionaries hate her so much.
And also that she’s a woman of color who didn’t stay “in her place.”
And it’s so annoying to hear liberals parrot the same shit because the conglomerates who own liberal media don’t want to change the status quo.
There’s a few more, but she’s the most charismatic. It’s a shame too, they tend to win more than their moderate counterparts during midterm races.
AOC, you personally might hate Nazis, but your country voted them into the White House, the congress, and the Senate. I wish you the best to fight the scum, like real Americans did 80 years ago.
The ones who don’t aren’t our countrymen and I look forward to the day enough of us recognize it.
Yeah but when my grandfather did it he had an M1
My grandfather was in the Navy on the pacific theater. Japanese fascists, German fascists, Italian fascists, all died the same way.
Do we though? Do we really, truly, hate Nazis? The evidence so far is not that conclusive.
I hate Nazis, but I don’t think the country as a whole hates Nazis.
We used to kill Nazis.
Now we cheer them, shrug them off, or make excuses for them.
This nation is pathetic.
I wonder how many conservative’s ancestors fought the Nazis and now they’re voting for Nazis.
Hey 2A enthusiasts. This is the moment you’ve been saying you need your guns for your entire pathetic lives. Where you at?
Assuming you’re American, you do understand the irony of America taking in the most nazi elite and scientists for their own personal projects right? Also if you read mein kampf you’ll find it fascinating how much he was inspired by American legalised racism and ethnic cleanings. America is a nation built like how Israel was, through ideological and legalized genocide, racism, fascism and racism. I’m starting to comprehend how the soviet did the real nazi killing and suffered the real consequences of the Nazis unlike America.
WW2 was between Russians and Germans. All the other stuff was barely a side character subplot compared to the Eastern front.
For example, in the Western front the German forces dealt more casualities to US and UK troops than the Allies did to the Axis by quite a lot too. Reading stories and diaries of American troops they would remark how astonishing it is that their German POWs were all either very young, or very old, either way remarkably unfit for combat. German command in the Western front was in shambles, because the vast majority of their efforts were going to the Eastern front. More Germans died in the battle of Stalingrad alone than in the entirety of the Western front. There were sieges in the Baltics that made Omaha Beach seem like a pretty lucky bet. The Belarusian grassroots genocide by Germans is hardly talked about, yet were just as brutal as they were against jews. The Siege of Leningrad is the type of nightmare fuel, hell on earth that Spielberg would never dream of touching. The West puts so much self importance about their fight against the German Nazi Machine, meanwhile it was the communists who did all the work while Western capitalists profited every step of the way since the beginning. And as you pointed out, America had and still has a strong Nazi following, also curiously backed by billionaires.
Now the collective West is the new Nazi party, and like it or not it’s up to Russia and China to stop them again.
EDIT - Just wanted to point out that a lot of the horrors of the Eastern front is equally blamed on Stalin too, Baltic people hate Germany and Russia the same for WW2. Every side of WW2 sucked horrendous ass, and nobody won in WW2 (except for capitalists)
Yeah, the people who see this as a significant deviation from the norm aren’t exactly incorrect, but I wonder to what degree they really understand the total history and scope of america as it has existed for basically all of it’s span. What we’ve done, in this country.
Kill Nazis. Kill Nazi CEOs twice.
That moment for 2A enthusaists came when Alabama banned abortion (before Roe v. Wade was overturned) and when Trump was putting children in cages. They didn’t then… they were the Nazis all along. The same people who just wanted to be the Brownshirts, but with their own personal firearms and not something issued to them.
We’re seeing a similiar bullshit in Israel with West Bank illegal ‘settlers’ carrying M4 pattern rifles with them to the ‘homes’.
As an LGBTQ+ person who supports the NRA and believes we need substantially more guns in America and to repeal all gun regulation, I really hope all LGBTQ+ and allies not only are armed, but realize the benefit of owning a variety of firearms.
Since conservatives are trying to say some or all LGBTQ+ people are mentally ill, and mental illness is often used to justify disarming people, it’s really important for LGBTQ+ people to be aware of these issues.
In the US, gender dyphoria is classified as a mental illness under the DSM and so technically any trans person who has seen a doctor is mentally ill and not allowed to own guns.
Therefore, trans people will hopefully realize the important of being armed prior to disclosing their trans status to a doctor and decent people should do their best to not only the discredit the DSM as the pseudointellectual biased phrenologyesque crock of shit that it is, but also to have gender dysphoria removed as a psychiatric issue and labeled for what it is, a medical issue resulting from brain differences that requires treatment.
LBGTQIA+ folks aren’t magical unicorns… They can have garbage takes just like anyone else.
You support the NRA?
You want to repeal all gun regulation?
Defend both of those immediately or show yourself here as a troll aiming to sow discord along an oddly narrow path.
if you look at my post history, which is filled with unmitigated pro 2A pro-NRA posts, you’ll see I’m not a troll.
We would live in a much more polite society if everyone were armed.
The fact that 2A can be limited if a person gets diagnosed with depression makes it more likely people, especially men, avoid mental health treatment (and then eventually commit suicide).
Gender dyphoria is considered a mental illness and is already a potential large attack surface for conservatives to disarms trans people (to use a software metaphore).
The NRA is in favor of repealing needless pointless gun regulations which ahve horrible secondary effects and reduce the safety of all.
I also disagree that all LGBTQI+ people take out the garbage.
National identity is imaginary, powerful and useful. What she’s choosing to claim with hers is badass. It’s brash, in-your-face, heroic. Anti-apathy. And our world needs tonnes more of it.
As an activist irl, and someone targeted daily by nazis for years, AOC has no illusions about the current state of fash in the USofA, nor the history and current state of slavery and genocide in the world. Nazis (and other misogynists) will tell you she’s ignorant and deluded, but you know she’s not. She’s manifesting, and the irony is lovely.
If you want to live in the country she does - against all the opposition activists for the common good constantly face - claim it as she claims it. Go find your allies irl and stop letting powerful men tell you there’s no point trying anything. Your enemy says you’re not a real person, but a thing God put on earth for them to use or destroy.
Tough love: Hope is hard work. Apathy is an easy trap that flatters your intelligence while it kills your spirit. Trust yourself and make a choice: who is your enemy and how are you going to treat them?
I heard an interview with the sci-fi author Kim Stanley Robinson, and he said something that I love: “pessimism is almost a dereliction of duty.”
If we want the world to be a better place, we have to make it a better place.
Lewis or Chesterton had something similar, that optimism and pessimism were both dishonest, but patriotism was necessary to existence. Probably Lewis
Thank you, this comment section has some of this cynisim already. Yes she’s saying very eviden things but the other side is winning precisely by creating a culture of fear and overwhelming toxicity and locking you in echo chambers that eat at you by making you think their normal is The normal. It’s not lying than to project what you want into the world until enough people are in on it and pressure bad elements into hiding or into changing path.
Fuck, dude. Maybe I have become too cynical. I’ve become a little dejected these last few days/weeks/months, but that was actually inspiring.
I should follow your username’s advice more lol.
Same. The enemy literally studies how to make us give up, and these screens we’re constantly touching are totally part of it.
snip from the last good thing I read on reddit:
The term “disinformation” undersells the problem. Because much of Russia’s social media activity is not trying to spread fake news. Instead, the goal is to divide and conquer by making Western audiences depressed and extreme.
Sometimes, through brigading and trolling. Other times, by posting hyper-negative or extremist posts or opinions about the U.S. the West over and over, until readers assume that’s how most people feel. And sometimes, by using trolls to disrupt threads that advance Western unity.
[edited for going on at length]
Extremely well said.
Yeah. I’m a fucking American. A real American who takes pride in national heroes like the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and many others who fought and died opposing fascism
Also for anyone interested in very left wing very American media, there’s a podcast called “Alice Isn’t Dead” that’s basically a radio show of a woman driving a truck looking for her missing wife, filled with musings on America and it’s nature. It’s by the nightvale people and it’s good enough that I have less radicalized friends that enjoy it
TIL! That’s what’s up. People acting like this is all brand new lol…
Here’s a lovely bit of spoken word from Utah Philips as thanks for the link.
Are people acting like this is new? We’re living in extremely precedented times. Hell even “social condervativism is on the rise while the climate changes catastrophically” describes the situation of the reign of king James the misogynistic of England and Scotland (most notable for his Bible translation, his witch burnings, and his unification of Scotland and England and colonization of the americas and acrually a lot more), at the beginning of the little ice age
Meh. 25% or so love them, another 25% couldn’t be bothered to care.
You think the numbers are that low? I’d say tops only 33% of the US still hates nazis. The remainder are split between loving them or being indifferent
i never realized that in the final battle between the forces of good, evil, and indifference that the indifferent would be by far the largest and most dangerous faction
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
-Martin Luther King Jr
He got it
Really? Because it always has been. Or did you forget the classic quote “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
I know it’s crazy
i guess the ancestors tried to tell us about the banality of evil, how badethings happen when good men do nothing, and that the path to hell is paved with good intentions
25% of people who couldn’t be bothered to care are still considered Nazis as far as I know
In This Country, We Hate Nazis
Lol! No they don’t.
The US has always loved fascism. It’s the only one of two political ideologies it endorses.
We love nazis so much we saved half of them after WW2 and brought them back home.
…and the other half was left in Germany to fill up West Germany’s intelligence services.
and all the remainders that survive mysteriously ended up in Argentina.
Latin America was essentially a retirement resort for fascist war criminals after WW2.
It turns out that the dictators who was friendly to US corporate interests was also raging Nazi sympathizers. It must be a complete coincidence though and totally not related at all.
Just the most brilliant
And the other is passive fascist enablers.
I love AOC but I sure hope she has a really good security team. Most of us hate Nazis, but a whole lot of Republicans are actually Nazis and they hate and despise her.
a gesture (…) resembling a Nazi salute
Fuck off with that shitlib overcautiousness, HuffPo! The only way it could have been any more obviously a Nazi salute would have been if he had screamed “sieg heil!” while doing it!
Wow, what an awkward way of saying hi!
‘In this country, we hate Nazis’
I wouldn’t be so sure. Trump didn’t win the election in a packet of cereals…
I want to live in the country she thinks she’s living in…
I greatly appreciate her frustration and look forward to her being the largest voice in dissent.
Same. But she better not be the only dissenting voice!
She’ll be MLK Jr’d before she becomes any sort of real voice. We can’t rely on idolising individuals anymore, that’s what fascists do.
Fucking preach.
I really hope AOC considers a 2028 run for President.
Edit: please fuck off about the uncertainty of 2028 elections, I’m excruciatingly aware, your reminders are not helpful.
Bold of you to assume there will be a 2028 election
Edit: commenter made a good point. It’s foolish to abandon any potential avenue of change, even if it seems like a lost cause
oh alright let’s all just give up then
Good point, thanks for the correction
It’s hilarious that you think you’re getting another election before Vance dies of old age. I hope you’re right of course but I’m pretty sure your future “elections” will be performative. You’re going to have to take that right back.
Part of fighting for it involves planning in case the fight is successful, and that planning includes picking candidates, so my original comment stands.
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Madam President 🖤
