There are 3 manifestos circulating. One is definitely fake as it was written by someone with an average intellect at best. It goes on to reference the Ridley Scott film “Gladiator” and is rife with spelling and grammatical errors. The second one that police released to the media with instructions not to publish it starts off boot licking cops saying “(to the feds) I appreciate what you do for our country” and the one i believe to be the legitimate Manifesto is on his personal website which shares his twitter handle. People have attempted to discredit this one by saying the metadata says it was created December ninth, however this does not add up. Firstly when you type the URL into the website age checker it says it was created sometime in july 2023. Secondly if you search the link in google you will see it is timestamped December 3rd. The day before the shooting. It is hosted in Rekyjavik Iceland on an encrypted .WHOIS server. However this is not all that leads me to believe it is legitimate.
Next if you examine the main page of the website you will see there are 2 posts as well as links to Mangione’s twitter, Github, LinkedIn and email address. Also the 2 links are tech projects he worked on. One is an AI project and the other is a robotics engineering project where he created a robot that mimics his own movements. This post has 3 pictures/.gifs of him controlling the device through his movements. These images are not located anywhere else online.
Next i analyzed the manifesto on this site and there are zero grammatical or spelling errors. I then had chat gpt do some analysis of the document. Firstly I asked if it appeared to be written by a person or an AI and it unequivocally answered that it is human generated. Next i had it assess the level of intellect and schooling as well as the age of the writer. It said the writer appears to be between the age of 30-50 but a high level of prestigious schooling could mean that the writer is indeed younger.
Now I remembered seeing someone post a twitter link to a paper mangione wrote about Christianity and the roman empire. So i pulled this up entered it into chat gpt and had it run an analysis on both. I then asked what the likelihood that both of these documents were written by the dame author and chat gpt said it was very likely especially if the manifesto was written years after the first allowing the writers skill level to increase. I have the chat gpt conversation screen shots if people would like me to post them or have any other ideas as to how this manifesto could be further analyzed.
But the manifesto that I believe to be the real deal is located at www dot pepmangione dot com backslash manifesto. I would link it but it seems the entire internet is on damage control for billionaires to scrub as much pro mangione content as they possibly can. Ive had YouTube comments shadow hidden and removed for just spelling out this link as I’ve done above
I used to be on reddit but luckily for me i didnt have to deal with tje insane censorship resulting from this phenomenon. However i had to deal with it 6-7 months ago when i was perma-IP banned for pointing out that international law states indigenous populations have a right ro defend themselves by any means necessary including the big V word. Now ive seen more than half a dozen Luigi Mangione Reddit subs wiped from existence in the last 10 days. Ive seen posts on photoshop battles nuked. Ive seen a sub with users who are flared as uhc corporate affiliated spreading ridiculous propaganda that was then parroted bu CNN 2 days later (brian Thompson is the new george floyd and other ridiculous shit) this sub is r/fuckluigimangione it reads like satire but their automod is ready to state otherwise anytime anyone asks if it is satirical.
We are living in a blatantly fascist plutocratic oligarchy.
I then had chat gpt do some analysis of the document.
This kind of analysis is worse than useless, and if this is what you’re basing your claim on… I’ll trust Klippenstein over you.
The whois info is pretty trustworthy, but yeah the chatgpt shit is just modern dowsing.
The entire section where you interacted with ChatGPT is completely and utterly useless. Every bit of it.
Agree to disagree. Is it on par with a forensic analysis of the writing style and composition of both documents? Definitely not. But is it completely useless? I don’t think so. Might as well use AI as a tool whenever we can.
No
What a convincing argument, bravo!
You brought no argument either. You only said that you don’t think it’s useless without backing that up.
May I remind you that chatgp is not intelligent, it doesn’t understand things. it’s only a statistical tool, answering with what would be most probably found in the corpus of text it was fed on.
An example of something that is useless would be a random rock in a mechanics tool box. Or a fork where the tines are connected to the handle by chain links. AI may be flawed but it can definitely be useful. And i think analyzing writing style and composition is something that it can handle without being capable of comprehending what it means to be human. Something that a large portion of humans ever to exist likely also didn’t comprehend
Is there convincing research on chatgpt stylometry ability?
Ill have to dig into that over the next day or so but a quick search provided me with this information
The accuracy of AI stylometry analysis can vary depending on the complexity of the situation, but generally reaches high levels, with studies reporting accuracies often exceeding 80% and sometimes reaching near 90% when identifying authorship in controlled scenarios, especially when comparing between only a few potential authors; however, accuracy can significantly decrease when dealing with a large pool of possible authors or when authors intentionally try to obfuscate their writing style
What exactly makes you think it has been trained to analyze writing style and composition? That sounds like a pretty niche LLM, in contrast to ChatGPT.
As a decades experienced web engineer, I’d like to know, what is an encrypted .WHOIS server? In all of my time, I’ve never seen those words put together in that order.
I think what you’re trying to say is that the WHOIS data associated with the domain is from a privacy service, not an actual person. You can pretty clearly see in that data that the domain was registered on Dec 9th of this year, and that part can’t be faked (at least, it can only be faked by the registrar, and I don’t think NameCheap Inc is in on it). So unless he set this domain up right before they arrested him, no, this is not his domain.
The IP address in the A record for that domain belongs to Amazon Inc, and is located in San Jose, CA. That pretty much shows that it’s running on an AWS machine. So yeah, literally anyone with some basic web knowledge could have set that up in a few minutes.
As even further evidence that it wasn’t him, the Wayback Machine only shows snapshots of that domain since Dec 9, 2024, the day the domain was registered. And the page changes between the night of the ninth, and the morning of the tenth, while he was in custody.
Thanks for your input. I do not have an expert grasp of coding or programming.
Is there no possibility one could have set this domain up to release after being arrested either by oneself or with a participating party?
That would be a stupid way to do it. Setting up the infrastructure can happen months before any content is visible.
Hyperrins explanation points to the idea that someone was actively setting this up when the news of the arrest dropped.
If it was set up beforehand, the content would be available on the first snapshot or there would be blank Wayback entries for more than only a few hours.
Whats the most possible scenario for someone having a message website release after suddenly becoming indefinitely or permanently indisposed?
This concept is called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man's_switch and the implementation is the service is set up, and periodically checks some criteria. If the criteria is not met, the payload is sent.
The criteria could be, some device does not sync for a certain amount of time, a series on of numbers isn’t entered into the bunker console after a timer runs on, a building floods and sets off a sensor, whatever you want. Could be GPS location on your phone doesn’t leave home on a workday. Anything.
The payload also varies. A message or vault of files is sent to someone specific, or made public on the web. The payload could be an automated incendiary if you are nuts. Probably people just delete their browser history.
This is a piece of infrastructure. There would be some evidence of things being set up before he topped the fucker.
Did you just reference lost?
Idk why j didn’t just say dead man switch. Momentary brain fart
If the dead man switch went to another party who was given the code in advance then was instructed to pay for the site and have it posted what evidence would there be?
Yes lost
Also co-conspirators? There would be evidence of communications or something. There might be conspirators that haven’t been uncovered yet, who knows.
Edit The criteria could be a buddy sees stuff on the news and then does all this, it’s just unlikely, being unreliable, and apparently this dude cut everyone out of his life. He might have some clandestine messaging to a specific person but that’s incredibly risky.
Well if hes as smart as he should be he would have figured out how to use pgp end to end encryption. If he did in fact have evidence on him he probably wanted to be caught and take responsibility for what he did. But no use supplying them with more evidence than they need. And also j think they are posturing with what evidence they say they have. The barrel of tje gun was a glock and glocks have polygonal rifling in the barrell which is impossible to get any reliable ballistics evidence from.
Itll be interesting to watch this case unfold and see where it goes if the general public will even be allowed to spectate given the terrorism enhancement
I can’t say there’s no possibility, but the probability is incredibly low. The domain was registered on the day he was arrested, likely after he was arrested, because the first Wayback snapshot is at 2:47 PM EST and the page is blank. Meaning, a web server had been set up to respond to requests, but no content had been added, so it just responded with an empty body. The first snapshot with content was taken two hours later at 4:28 PM EST.
The rat that ratted him out called 911 shortly after 9 AM, which means he was in custody during this time.
The story had just started to spread by the early afternoon, so whoever registered the domain could have done so after learning his name from the news. (Utah Dispatch posted the story at 12:39 PM.)
The rat that ratted him out was likely also fabricated since his mother called police days before the arrest saying that the picture looked like him and thid seems like something he would do.
I read someone who described a digital police tool called mark-23 which allows police to access the microphone and camera of mobile phones even when they are off and the battery removed and also provide location data in real time accurate to within a few feet. That and mcdonalds self ordering kiosks have AI and Facial recognition built in so it’s extremely likely they made up nancy parker to not further anger the proletariat. Just a hunch though.
Well, regarding the phone thing, modern phones don’t have removable batteries, but it’s very unlikely that the cops have a way to access the camera and microphone even when the phone is on. Cops have a notoriously difficult time just unlocking a phone that’s in their possession. The FBI/CIA etc might be another story. Who knows what active exploits they’re using.
But if your phone is powered off, it won’t be sending or receiving any data, both of which require power and create EM signals that can be detected. Unless your phone advertises some sort of remote wake feature, once it’s off, it’s off. It is doing nothing but tracking the time (RTC is always on in all modern tech with any sort of battery).
Cops can, however, triangulate your location to within a block or two using your phone’s cell tower pings. Those happen as long as your phone isn’t in Airplane mode. It takes a while (like, an hour or two), and the phone company has to do it for them, but that’s often how they find missing people.
Edit: recent iPhones DO have a sort of remote on function, btw. It’s not cellular, but some propriety thing based on MagSafe, so it requires a machine to be within a few inches of the phone. Basically it uses the same circuitry as the wireless charging does.
ChatGPT doesnt know shit about fuck. NEXT!
Why would someone who wrote the /manifesto page have such a shit website? Far more likely that someone registered the domain on 12/09/2024 like the whois says, made this front page out of what little shit they could get their hands on, and then buried their own text at /manifesto.
And … do people who write manifestos call them “manifesto”?
I’d believe Klippenstein over this anonymous copypasta.
I haven’t actually looked at this website, but there’s a long history of programmer types making the most basic personal websites they can with unformatted, plain HTML and the like.
Consider, for example, the Agile Manifesto. It’s kinda important for the history of software engineering, but just try to read it on top of that tiled background.
Idk, maybe when you’re this based you see a duck and you just call it a duck? He did name the document “Healthcare and its victims” which is a succinct and accurate title imo
Also it is likely someone so into tech would skimp on a webpage rather than the projects they are working on. This is all speculation but why would the /manifesto be timestamped December 3rd on google search which is 6 days before anyone knew who mangione was?
I think its most likely police fabricated the one the media leaked to klippenstien. Primarily to make his political beliefs look disjointed and unhinged. Like thanking the class traitor attack dogs of the owner class and also calling the owner class parasites in the same long winded paragraph? Also we don’t have a photo of the actual alleged document just a type up. The other purpose of releasing a forgery is to see which reporters would do as they are told and if the real one is ever widely circulated the reporters who didn’t fall in line could be attacked as lacking credibility. Its kind of a twofur.
Klippenstein is a journalist with a history. He posted what he had, on his own site, saying “I’ve obtained a copy of suspected killer Luigi Mangione’s manifesto — the real one, not the forgery circulating online.”
This pepmangione.com site - we have no idea who put this up. Internet Archive doesn’t have anything on it prior to December 9, 2024. Same thing for /manifesto. This aligns with the whois domain registration date.
I think you’re reaching, and the assumptions you’re making and then claiming are most likely, without any evidence to support them smack of conspiracy theory. What’s most likely here, based on evidence, is that someone decided to have some fun and register this domain on Dec 9 and plop some things in it.
Given the fact that reddit instructed mods to delete and heavily censor any and all mangione content as soon as he was arrested and that multiple luigi oriented communities on multiple platforms are being deleted left and right its more than fair and warranted to suspect conspiracy. People with billions of dollars who profit on militarism and prison industry do not play by the rules they write them and rewrite them as they see fit.
I like ken, his reporting is top notch but he might be a little less naive than other reporters but still a bit naive. This is what he was given and he had every right to believe it is legit but i think something smells fishy here.
This post has 3 pictures/.gifs of him controlling the device through his movements. These images are not located anywhere else online.
They’re literally from the github project that’s linked. Your research is weak.
Why does this matter, though? His manifesto was written on the bullet casings. Whether we have The True Manifesto™ is not really relevant, because what he stands for is an idea, and trying to turn our just anger into some kind of purity cult or religion will only burden that idea with unnecessary baggage.
People just want to know more about him.
But i appreciate your answer. It is Based Af
As long as people don’t lose sight of the forest for the trees, I’m down with learning! I just know that there’s a concerted effort by the media establishment to obfuscate and distract from what he represents.
File dates can be forged.
Indeed. But i am curious, are you questioning the info on websiteage.org, the google timestamp or the December 9th date people are using to write it off as fake?
How Do We Detect Website Age?
[…] it fetches the webpage in the given url, and then scans through the HTML markup and content, to find indicators of the site age.
It seems that it would be easy to throw websiteage.org way off.
Would it not also be easy for ultra wealthy individuals to tamper with the website metadata to alter the date as to discredit it?
What of the google timestamp of December 3rd?
The date in google search result is also easy to manipulate.
https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/publication-dates?hl=en
The most reliable thing would be archive.org
And even archive.org isn’t guaranteed to cache information on the date of creation.
Yes, it can miss informations but the data it has is reliable.
Anybody could be wrong about anything, but Ken Klippenstien has a track record of being right. You have a two-day-old account on Lemmy, and an unwarranted reliance on ChatGPT.
I used to have a 2 year old account with a bunch if meaningless karma on reddit but those basrards IP banned me 6 months ago for a comment that said international law states indigenous populations have a right to defend themselves from occupation by any means.
I might be wrong, but my gut tells me something smells fishy and only one of these documents sounds like it was written by an ivy league cum laude graduate. ill admit I put too much stock into irrelevant factors. However my gut is still pulling me towards believing this other manifesto seems more believable.
And its not that i don’t think Klippenstien is a good reporter or that he’s not trustworthy. Its that i think cops and the reporters working for legacy media are both extremely untrustworthy. I guess only time will tell and if I’m wrong ill eat my words.
Post the info on the original timestamp being DEC 3. The DEC9 posting was the most convincing i agree but the dates were enough to cast doubt. Very likely they are calling his arrest statement a manifesto to muddy the waters, but I havent much confidence in that breloom signed substack due to the modified date.
Im not a computer savvy hacking wiz. All i have is a screenshot someone else took and a screenshot i took from my mobile device both timestamped December 3rd and a screenshot of the websiteage.org inquiry that says estimated date of creation is july 2023.
I think its best to remember the media narrative isnt the only thing people with more money than the GDP of many nations have the capacity to manipulate. I can (attempt) to post the screenshots and chat gpt screenshots if thats helpful? I say attempt because i just started using lemmy through the voyager app and its been a challenge yo figure it out lol.
Screenshots can be doctored, still interested in em tho. To my knowledge this is the one posted on DEC9. It was taken down as substack called it impersonation. I have not seen any evidence that verifies it. There is also no real metadata we can pull from it outside of what was archived on the page to my knowledge.
Obviously but do as i did and type pepmangione and manifesto into google search and the link should pop up with the december 3rd timestamp as it did for me.
(Edit) i just tried again and the timestamp is now not showing which is sketchy
Ohh https://www.whois.com/whois/pepmangione.com
Honestly my opinion both cant be verified. Both were created the night of the arrest. Both are pretty sketchy but at times convincing because they touch on very real issues with our system. Pepmangione domain was even registered that night. ID be more apt to believe it if it wasnt.
In the case that december 9 is the correct date of creation which i am not sold on, it is still possible that he used his programing skills to create a deadman switch as to release this document if he didnt check into an account within a certain time frame? There are other possibilities here.
This just feels like the writing is more indicative of someone with his level of education. Also if you read the paper he wrote when he was 15 on rome and Christianity its not difficult to see similarities in the writing style.
The domain was literally created on December 9.
Is it your expert opinion without a doubt that date of December 9th could not have been altered after the fact? Is there no chance things may not be as they seem?
Are there forensic web data analysis tools that the general public generally does not have access to that could be implemented to further investigate this domain?
I dunno. The weird AI art that disappears on the 10th is kinda sus.
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://pepmangione.com/manifesto/
What weird ai art?
Whats also sus is now if you search in google the link appears with no timestamp…
Yes I do remember seeing that image before.
What I think would be most helpful to settle this would be individuals with forensic expertise. A forensic web data and a forensic writing analysis. I don’t think its beyond plausible that someone with mangione’s technical prowess would be able to write codes and implement protocol that would lead to a website being published the day he was arrested as others have suggested in other threads discussing this document.
I also think the one police released to the press is favorable for police because it can be used to paint an image of mangione as unhinged with convoluted political beliefs.
You already made up your mind and you are only looking at things that goes your way, no matter how weak, while questioning everything that goes against it.
The world can be complexe, often not how we would like it to be. People have all sorts of contradictory beliefs. Especially if it’s an American about politics.
You’re not wrong. Americans and their political beliefs are mostly colored by the propaganda they consume and believe is unbiased. But unbiased reporting went out the window when reagan vetoed the fairness in media law in 1987 and bush sr vetoed the second attempt to codify this law. Since then the american media machine is nothing more than spiffy polished millionaires with acting experience being payed handsomely to lie yo the rest of us by a small group of wall street military and prison industry profiteering billionaires. So i take everything the news puts out with a massive grain of salt.
thank you for this
