This is only a problem because people imagine a potion has to have certain traits. Afaik, none of the rules as written specify that potions have to be more than a mouthful.
It isn’t like potions are medicine, where you have to have a specific quantity to be effective. They’re liquid magic. A single drop could carry whatever it does, though that would be less than useful because getting that single drop out of a bottle would be just as time consuming as chugging a bottle.
If you don’t think of potions as being in a half pint sized bottle, the problem takes care of itself. A vial about two inches long and an inch in diameter, made of earthenware or even glass would hold enough of whatever to fill your mouth, be just as portable, and only take three to five seconds to use.
If you ignore having to swallow, it’s even faster. It’s magic, it could activate and affect you as soon as it’s inside your body. Which also means rectal intake would work tbh.
There’s plenty of fictional reference for potions being contact based, where the first drops start whatever change occurs. And there’s basis good healing positions being able to be used topically, though that won’t always apply to every injury.
But think about that for a second. If the potion has to be swallowed, that’s pretty badly planned magic. The healing spells that healing potions are made from are contact based depending on the system. Touch ranged healing is fairly common. So, why can the healing potions not work if poured onto a wound? Why would you have to wait while you swallow, then let the magic burst from the stomach?
And, we know potions can be used on unconscious targets. Unconscious people can’t always swallow anyway. So the full draught being swallowed is obviously preconception rather than something that is inherent to potion use.
The reason potion making in our world (hey, there’s recipes for them, and people think they work, don’t blame me) supposedly requires drinking the entire thing is that the ingredients are part of the magic, and the use of heat to reduce the potion beyond the initial making is “magically” going to break down what would work. Mind you, that’s what people have claimed when the question is posed to them.
Working with real magic, you could reduce the liquid part, or hand wave it and say that the ingredients are consumed in making the potion, and thus don’t require the same end volume.
And yes, I’ve thought about this way too much lol
Edit: FWIW, I did some quick reading up tonight. I can’t believe I’ve not paid attention to this in over thirty years as a DM. 5e states that a potion usually contains an ounce of liquid. A shot glass typically holds 1.25 to 1.5 ounces. There’s 2 tablespoons per ounce, for another frame of reference.
So it should, RAW, only take about a second to two seconds to lift the potion vial to the lips, throw it back and swallow. That’s about all it takes to do a shot.
3.X edition specifies a difference between potions and oils, so RAW potions do have to be imbibed (per the DMG) with oils being the topical version. However, it also specifies a single ounce as the quantity.
So, D&D intends potions to be slightly less than a single mouthful of liquid.
I’m not sure about TSR era as I’m not sure where to find the potion info, and PDFs of those are a bitch to look things up in. But I kinda doubt that 3.X totally threw away previous descriptions of what a potion is in terms of size
In BG3 you can put a potion on the ground between multiple people and hit it, and everyone splashed is healed. So, yes, the whole magic aspect of your explanation and not needing to actually swallow it seems to make sense (in BG3).
but if you aren’t watering down your potions to at least a pint as practice for the tavern victory party afterward i’m not sure you deserve them at all tbh
This is only a problem because people imagine a potion has to have certain traits. Afaik, none of the rules as written specify that potions have to be more than a mouthful.
It isn’t like potions are medicine, where you have to have a specific quantity to be effective. They’re liquid magic. A single drop could carry whatever it does, though that would be less than useful because getting that single drop out of a bottle would be just as time consuming as chugging a bottle.
If you don’t think of potions as being in a half pint sized bottle, the problem takes care of itself. A vial about two inches long and an inch in diameter, made of earthenware or even glass would hold enough of whatever to fill your mouth, be just as portable, and only take three to five seconds to use.
If you ignore having to swallow, it’s even faster. It’s magic, it could activate and affect you as soon as it’s inside your body. Which also means rectal intake would work tbh.
There’s plenty of fictional reference for potions being contact based, where the first drops start whatever change occurs. And there’s basis good healing positions being able to be used topically, though that won’t always apply to every injury.
But think about that for a second. If the potion has to be swallowed, that’s pretty badly planned magic. The healing spells that healing potions are made from are contact based depending on the system. Touch ranged healing is fairly common. So, why can the healing potions not work if poured onto a wound? Why would you have to wait while you swallow, then let the magic burst from the stomach?
And, we know potions can be used on unconscious targets. Unconscious people can’t always swallow anyway. So the full draught being swallowed is obviously preconception rather than something that is inherent to potion use.
The reason potion making in our world (hey, there’s recipes for them, and people think they work, don’t blame me) supposedly requires drinking the entire thing is that the ingredients are part of the magic, and the use of heat to reduce the potion beyond the initial making is “magically” going to break down what would work. Mind you, that’s what people have claimed when the question is posed to them.
Working with real magic, you could reduce the liquid part, or hand wave it and say that the ingredients are consumed in making the potion, and thus don’t require the same end volume.
For that matter, what are people doing keeping your potions in glass bottles anyway? Or even earthenware or waterskins? Put it inside gelatin, or a nutshell, or a ball of resin/sap, or a dried sausage, or a bundle of cotton, really anything you can safely and easily toss in your mouth, bite through, and either swallow or spit out afterward as needs must. Putting it in a bottle you must uncork and swig from is insanely inefficient.
FWIW, I did some quick reading up tonight. I can’t believe I’ve not paid attention to this in over thirty years as a DM. 5e states that a potion usually contains an ounce of liquid. A shot glass typically holds 1.25 to 1.5 ounces. There’s 2 tablespoons per ounce, for another frame of reference.
Where did you read that? The PHB only says that a potion is contained in a vial, and the description of a vial says it holds 4 ounces.
EDIT: I see, the DMG, page 139. My math in the rest of this comment makes the assumption that potions must be about the same density as water, but this development can only mean one thing: potions are four times the density of water. This makes it more dense than a rock! This has no rules implications, but it’s interesting!
Further, an empty vial has no weight listed, which means it must weigh less than a quarter of a pound (the smallest weight the rules account for). A potion weighs half a pound, which means that (assuming a similar density to water) there must be at least 3.8 ounces of liquid in the vial.
Granted, that’s still only half a cup, but the rules say it takes an action to drink a potion. We need to flavor potions to account for that, not change the rules to fit our interpretation of how we want potions to work.
My workaround is to make it so that the PC can just cronch down on the vial with a bonus action. The broken glass deals a d4 damage, but the potion still heals the same amount it normally would.
The DMG section on potions. PDF version. The file is maybe three years old? I saw no mention of weight in that section. It may be contradictory to other parts of the core rules, I dunno. I was looking specifically for potions info via TOCs and indexes.
Taking an action to drink a potion would include more than just the time to pour and swallow though. Unless you have the potion in hand, it would include retrieving it, and opening it. An action is equivalent to about six seconds, right? That seems like about the right amount of time from the outside at least.
I edited my comment with more fact checking, and the DMG mentions the 1 oz potions on page 139. That also has implications for the density of a potion–a piece of granite would float in it! Honestly I’m fine with being wrong about the volume of a potion, that’s a legit fun fact
As for your source, there are better options than a PDF from 3 years ago. Am I allowed to mention that easily googleable website that has tools that we can use for 5e on this forum?
Yeah, I tend to prefer on device resources when I can’t have physical copies. Online resources tend to be a pain in the ass when you need them most, so I never think of them.
I don’t play 5e, nor run a game with it, so I haven’t bothered to find newer copies of the PDF. If they’ve changed that much in a few years that the official site/books are no longer useful for quickly checking things, I can’t say I’ll ever bother to look for new files. It would mean that they’ve turned d&d into a churn based monetary thing rather than a reliable game system. I’m just not interested in that.
I mean, I have all the old ad&d books, most of the 3.X, and the box sets from before 2e. The 5e stuff, I’ll never buy any of if there’s not a good reason to.
This is only a problem because people imagine a potion has to have certain traits. Afaik, none of the rules as written specify that potions have to be more than a mouthful.
It isn’t like potions are medicine, where you have to have a specific quantity to be effective. They’re liquid magic. A single drop could carry whatever it does, though that would be less than useful because getting that single drop out of a bottle would be just as time consuming as chugging a bottle.
If you don’t think of potions as being in a half pint sized bottle, the problem takes care of itself. A vial about two inches long and an inch in diameter, made of earthenware or even glass would hold enough of whatever to fill your mouth, be just as portable, and only take three to five seconds to use.
If you ignore having to swallow, it’s even faster. It’s magic, it could activate and affect you as soon as it’s inside your body. Which also means rectal intake would work tbh.
There’s plenty of fictional reference for potions being contact based, where the first drops start whatever change occurs. And there’s basis good healing positions being able to be used topically, though that won’t always apply to every injury.
But think about that for a second. If the potion has to be swallowed, that’s pretty badly planned magic. The healing spells that healing potions are made from are contact based depending on the system. Touch ranged healing is fairly common. So, why can the healing potions not work if poured onto a wound? Why would you have to wait while you swallow, then let the magic burst from the stomach?
And, we know potions can be used on unconscious targets. Unconscious people can’t always swallow anyway. So the full draught being swallowed is obviously preconception rather than something that is inherent to potion use.
The reason potion making in our world (hey, there’s recipes for them, and people think they work, don’t blame me) supposedly requires drinking the entire thing is that the ingredients are part of the magic, and the use of heat to reduce the potion beyond the initial making is “magically” going to break down what would work. Mind you, that’s what people have claimed when the question is posed to them.
Working with real magic, you could reduce the liquid part, or hand wave it and say that the ingredients are consumed in making the potion, and thus don’t require the same end volume.
And yes, I’ve thought about this way too much lol
Edit: FWIW, I did some quick reading up tonight. I can’t believe I’ve not paid attention to this in over thirty years as a DM. 5e states that a potion usually contains an ounce of liquid. A shot glass typically holds 1.25 to 1.5 ounces. There’s 2 tablespoons per ounce, for another frame of reference.
So it should, RAW, only take about a second to two seconds to lift the potion vial to the lips, throw it back and swallow. That’s about all it takes to do a shot.
3.X edition specifies a difference between potions and oils, so RAW potions do have to be imbibed (per the DMG) with oils being the topical version. However, it also specifies a single ounce as the quantity.
So, D&D intends potions to be slightly less than a single mouthful of liquid.
I’m not sure about TSR era as I’m not sure where to find the potion info, and PDFs of those are a bitch to look things up in. But I kinda doubt that 3.X totally threw away previous descriptions of what a potion is in terms of size
Rectal intake, got it.
dude wrote 10k words and you notice rectal intake
just like I did
So you’re saying we need potion busting boba. Just toss one in your mouth and pop it
In BG3 you can put a potion on the ground between multiple people and hit it, and everyone splashed is healed. So, yes, the whole magic aspect of your explanation and not needing to actually swallow it seems to make sense (in BG3).
just throw it on the ground where you want it to burst. the person using an action doesn’t need to be next to it
but if you aren’t watering down your potions to at least a pint as practice for the tavern victory party afterward i’m not sure you deserve them at all tbh
edit: bullshit by me
D&D is by no means “hard” fantasy.
This is only a problem because people imagine a potion has to have certain traits. Afaik, none of the rules as written specify that potions have to be more than a mouthful.
It isn’t like potions are medicine, where you have to have a specific quantity to be effective. They’re liquid magic. A single drop could carry whatever it does, though that would be less than useful because getting that single drop out of a bottle would be just as time consuming as chugging a bottle.
If you don’t think of potions as being in a half pint sized bottle, the problem takes care of itself. A vial about two inches long and an inch in diameter, made of earthenware or even glass would hold enough of whatever to fill your mouth, be just as portable, and only take three to five seconds to use.
If you ignore having to swallow, it’s even faster. It’s magic, it could activate and affect you as soon as it’s inside your body. Which also means rectal intake would work tbh.
There’s plenty of fictional reference for potions being contact based, where the first drops start whatever change occurs. And there’s basis good healing positions being able to be used topically, though that won’t always apply to every injury.
But think about that for a second. If the potion has to be swallowed, that’s pretty badly planned magic. The healing spells that healing potions are made from are contact based depending on the system. Touch ranged healing is fairly common. So, why can the healing potions not work if poured onto a wound? Why would you have to wait while you swallow, then let the magic burst from the stomach?
And, we know potions can be used on unconscious targets. Unconscious people can’t always swallow anyway. So the full draught being swallowed is obviously preconception rather than something that is inherent to potion use.
The reason potion making in our world (hey, there’s recipes for them, and people think they work, don’t blame me) supposedly requires drinking the entire thing is that the ingredients are part of the magic, and the use of heat to reduce the potion beyond the initial making is “magically” going to break down what would work. Mind you, that’s what people have claimed when the question is posed to them.
Working with real magic, you could reduce the liquid part, or hand wave it and say that the ingredients are consumed in making the potion, and thus don’t require the same end volume.
And yes, I’ve thought about this way too much lol
For that matter, what are people doing keeping your potions in glass bottles anyway? Or even earthenware or waterskins? Put it inside gelatin, or a nutshell, or a ball of resin/sap, or a dried sausage, or a bundle of cotton, really anything you can safely and easily toss in your mouth, bite through, and either swallow or spit out afterward as needs must. Putting it in a bottle you must uncork and swig from is insanely inefficient.
You sound like you’ve never eaten sausage while engaged in physical combat
Literally or metaphorically?
I knew I shouldn’t have mentioned sausage on Lemmy. Some of y’all are too weird for me
Where did you read that? The PHB only says that a potion is contained in a vial, and the description of a vial says it holds 4 ounces.
EDIT: I see, the DMG, page 139. My math in the rest of this comment makes the assumption that potions must be about the same density as water, but this development can only mean one thing: potions are four times the density of water. This makes it more dense than a rock! This has no rules implications, but it’s interesting!
Further, an empty vial has no weight listed, which means it must weigh less than a quarter of a pound (the smallest weight the rules account for). A potion weighs half a pound, which means that (assuming a similar density to water) there must be at least 3.8 ounces of liquid in the vial.
Granted, that’s still only half a cup, but the rules say it takes an action to drink a potion. We need to flavor potions to account for that, not change the rules to fit our interpretation of how we want potions to work.
My workaround is to make it so that the PC can just cronch down on the vial with a bonus action. The broken glass deals a d4 damage, but the potion still heals the same amount it normally would.
The DMG section on potions. PDF version. The file is maybe three years old? I saw no mention of weight in that section. It may be contradictory to other parts of the core rules, I dunno. I was looking specifically for potions info via TOCs and indexes.
Taking an action to drink a potion would include more than just the time to pour and swallow though. Unless you have the potion in hand, it would include retrieving it, and opening it. An action is equivalent to about six seconds, right? That seems like about the right amount of time from the outside at least.
I edited my comment with more fact checking, and the DMG mentions the 1 oz potions on page 139. That also has implications for the density of a potion–a piece of granite would float in it! Honestly I’m fine with being wrong about the volume of a potion, that’s a legit fun fact
As for your source, there are better options than a PDF from 3 years ago. Am I allowed to mention that easily googleable website that has tools that we can use for 5e on this forum?
Yeah, I tend to prefer on device resources when I can’t have physical copies. Online resources tend to be a pain in the ass when you need them most, so I never think of them.
I don’t play 5e, nor run a game with it, so I haven’t bothered to find newer copies of the PDF. If they’ve changed that much in a few years that the official site/books are no longer useful for quickly checking things, I can’t say I’ll ever bother to look for new files. It would mean that they’ve turned d&d into a churn based monetary thing rather than a reliable game system. I’m just not interested in that.
I mean, I have all the old ad&d books, most of the 3.X, and the box sets from before 2e. The 5e stuff, I’ll never buy any of if there’s not a good reason to.