Do you have any clue what living in an actually undemocratic country is like?
Of course not. I grew up in a fascist state (Apartheid-South Africa) that was most definitely classified as “democratic” by the very same western “democracies” that are now also classifying Israel as “democratic.”
So no… what would I know about it?
The mere fact you’re able to protest should not be taken for granted.
They only allow you to protest until the protesting threatens the status quo. Then you’ll see all these (supposedly) “democratic” states act no differently than the ones without all the liberal pretensions.
Being able to protest without getting immediately jailed or murdered is a massive blessing that is unachievable in autocracies. I’ve seen what protests look in USA, France, Germany, Poland, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia. USA, France, Poland, and Germany are incomparably more lenient than Russia or Belarus. (Kazakhstan is somewhere in-between, it’s on the path of democratisation, like Ukraine was, but cannot be yet considered one).
I grew up in a fascist state that was most definitely classified as “democratic”…
I’d like you to check whether or not what you’re claiming is actually the case. Because even Israel, strictly speaking, isn’t classified as democracy. It’s a flawed democracy.
Besides. What do you consider “fascist”? Since this word often gets thrown around with no real meaning behind it.
Anyhow, I use what information I have. If you think you’re smarter than literal doctors of polytology, then go ahead and publish your own research. I’m not the one you should be complaining about set classifications to. That’s kind of pointless.
Besides, what’s your point to begin with? That USA is not a democracy? If so, then go ahead and read what I wrote again. My main complaint was about Russia being called an Olygarchy and thus compared to the USA, when it is far worse in reality.
Does it now? Germany, the UK, the US and France are all pushing through legislation that will enable less and less restrictions on the violence their kapos mete out to the non-collaborationist parts of the population… underneath all the liberal pretensions, the genocidal white supremacist fascism is shining through because it’s always been there.
are incomparably more lenient
You mean their repression is less overt because their respective status quos is, for now, more stable than Russia’s or Kazakhstan and not so easily threatened from below.
Because even Israel, strictly speaking, isn’t classified as democracy.
The countries that have been arming, funding and supporting Israel since 1948 (who also, purely coincidentally, all have deep histories of white supremacist and antisemitic represssion, exploitation and genocide) disagrees with you. After all, if you can call the mixture of 95% capitalism and 5% artificial democracy substitute that gets classified as “democracy” by the (so-called) west “democratic” it’s not a far stretch to extend that classification to any nation that acts “white” enough - you know, like Israel and Apartheid-South Africa.
Since this word often gets thrown around with no real meaning behind it.
And it also gets thrown around with a lot of meaning behind it - and I’m always curious about people who seem to grow insecure about it when I do.
thus compared to the USA, when it is far worse in reality.
Yes. Your argument is about de-democratisation. I talk about democratic vs. authoritarian.
I argue it’s better to be democratic than not. You argue that countries become less democratic. Those are different topics.
You mean their…
Quite the opposite, actually. They’re more lenient because they’re less stable, as it’s not guaranteed you’ll stay in the office after everything’s over. Russia’s status quo from a political standpoint is the strongest it has ever been.
All political opposition has been eradicated. Everybody’s threatened to speak out because they now they’ll just get jailed. There can be no mass protests because the current incumbent is simply too strong to oppose.
The countries that have been…
That’s not me they’re disagreeing with. Again, that’s not my classification. All I argue is that “artificial democracies” are far worse. Russia is one, BTW. It likes to hold a facade of being a democracy, when in reality, it’s a hybrid regime (namely, informational autocracy).
And it also…
So, you decided to ignore my question and be a douche about it… I’ll take it as “I don’t like it, so it’s fascist” then.
You’re arguing that a veneer of false democracy that exists purely to camouflage the exact same authoritarianism actually qualifies as democracy.
It doesn’t.
as it’s not guaranteed you’ll stay in the office after everything’s over.
Joe Biden leaving the White House doesn’t threaten the status quo in the US. You are confusing propaganda with the actual politics said propaganda is designed to obscure.
All I argue is that “artificial democracies” are far worse.
95% capitalism with 5% fake artificial democracy substitute (ie, so-called "liberal democracy) is about as artificial as “artificial democracy” gets.
This is what you don’t seem to understand. The so-called “democracy” that exists in the so-called “west” is stable because their electoral politics do not threaten the interests of the class of (thoroughly unelected) billionaire parasites who runs these societies. Regimes like Russia hasn’t attained this kind of stability yet - that is why the billionaire parasites that benefit from these regimes needs overt authoritarianism to protect their interests.
If the interests of this (again, thoroughly unelected) billionaire class is truly threatened in so-called “liberal democratic” states you will see them resort to the exact same type of authoritarianism. This is why ALL “liberal democracies” comes with built-in fascist institutions (such as the police and other paramilitary organisations) that can enable such authoritarian violence in the blink of an eye if necessary.
(Please don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the police exists to protect YOU.)
In a truly democratic society, fascism couldn’t exist. Capitalism couldn’t exist.
The fact that they do should tell you something.
“I don’t like it, so it’s fascist”
I hate to be the one to break it to you… but Mussolini did not invent fascism. He merely gave it a name.
Of course not. I grew up in a fascist state (Apartheid-South Africa) that was most definitely classified as “democratic” by the very same western “democracies” that are now also classifying Israel as “democratic.”
So no… what would I know about it?
They only allow you to protest until the protesting threatens the status quo. Then you’ll see all these (supposedly) “democratic” states act no differently than the ones without all the liberal pretensions.
My point stands.
Being able to protest without getting immediately jailed or murdered is a massive blessing that is unachievable in autocracies. I’ve seen what protests look in USA, France, Germany, Poland, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia. USA, France, Poland, and Germany are incomparably more lenient than Russia or Belarus. (Kazakhstan is somewhere in-between, it’s on the path of democratisation, like Ukraine was, but cannot be yet considered one).
I’d like you to check whether or not what you’re claiming is actually the case. Because even Israel, strictly speaking, isn’t classified as democracy. It’s a flawed democracy.
Besides. What do you consider “fascist”? Since this word often gets thrown around with no real meaning behind it.
Anyhow, I use what information I have. If you think you’re smarter than literal doctors of polytology, then go ahead and publish your own research. I’m not the one you should be complaining about set classifications to. That’s kind of pointless.
Besides, what’s your point to begin with? That USA is not a democracy? If so, then go ahead and read what I wrote again. My main complaint was about Russia being called an Olygarchy and thus compared to the USA, when it is far worse in reality.
Does it now? Germany, the UK, the US and France are all pushing through legislation that will enable less and less restrictions on the violence their kapos mete out to the non-collaborationist parts of the population… underneath all the liberal pretensions, the genocidal white supremacist fascism is shining through because it’s always been there.
You mean their repression is less overt because their respective status quos is, for now, more stable than Russia’s or Kazakhstan and not so easily threatened from below.
The countries that have been arming, funding and supporting Israel since 1948 (who also, purely coincidentally, all have deep histories of white supremacist and antisemitic represssion, exploitation and genocide) disagrees with you. After all, if you can call the mixture of 95% capitalism and 5% artificial democracy substitute that gets classified as “democracy” by the (so-called) west “democratic” it’s not a far stretch to extend that classification to any nation that acts “white” enough - you know, like Israel and Apartheid-South Africa.
And it also gets thrown around with a lot of meaning behind it - and I’m always curious about people who seem to grow insecure about it when I do.
Worse for whom?
Yes. Your argument is about de-democratisation. I talk about democratic vs. authoritarian.
I argue it’s better to be democratic than not. You argue that countries become less democratic. Those are different topics.
Quite the opposite, actually. They’re more lenient because they’re less stable, as it’s not guaranteed you’ll stay in the office after everything’s over. Russia’s status quo from a political standpoint is the strongest it has ever been.
All political opposition has been eradicated. Everybody’s threatened to speak out because they now they’ll just get jailed. There can be no mass protests because the current incumbent is simply too strong to oppose.
That’s not me they’re disagreeing with. Again, that’s not my classification. All I argue is that “artificial democracies” are far worse. Russia is one, BTW. It likes to hold a facade of being a democracy, when in reality, it’s a hybrid regime (namely, informational autocracy).
So, you decided to ignore my question and be a douche about it… I’ll take it as “I don’t like it, so it’s fascist” then.
Citizens, obviously. How is that even a question?
You’re arguing that a veneer of false democracy that exists purely to camouflage the exact same authoritarianism actually qualifies as democracy.
It doesn’t.
Joe Biden leaving the White House doesn’t threaten the status quo in the US. You are confusing propaganda with the actual politics said propaganda is designed to obscure.
95% capitalism with 5% fake artificial democracy substitute (ie, so-called "liberal democracy) is about as artificial as “artificial democracy” gets.
This is what you don’t seem to understand. The so-called “democracy” that exists in the so-called “west” is stable because their electoral politics do not threaten the interests of the class of (thoroughly unelected) billionaire parasites who runs these societies. Regimes like Russia hasn’t attained this kind of stability yet - that is why the billionaire parasites that benefit from these regimes needs overt authoritarianism to protect their interests.
If the interests of this (again, thoroughly unelected) billionaire class is truly threatened in so-called “liberal democratic” states you will see them resort to the exact same type of authoritarianism. This is why ALL “liberal democracies” comes with built-in fascist institutions (such as the police and other paramilitary organisations) that can enable such authoritarian violence in the blink of an eye if necessary.
(Please don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the police exists to protect YOU.)
In a truly democratic society, fascism couldn’t exist. Capitalism couldn’t exist.
The fact that they do should tell you something.
I hate to be the one to break it to you… but Mussolini did not invent fascism. He merely gave it a name.