New research suggests riders and city planners need to make changes to keep people safe.
I don’t thank anyone else has posted this yet, so I’ll just leave it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI
Ok, so yes, I agree completely that older riders are more susceptible to crashing on an e-bike. We have enough evidence from the Netherlands to know that this isn’t about infrastructure.
However, the article is a bit of a mess because it mentions rental e-bikes and other classes of bikes that you’d never see in a rental program.
Now, rental bikes, e-bike, and e-scooters come with an additional challenge: they aren’t set up to rider, and have a different “feel” to what the rider might experience with their own bike.
When I read "‘I didn’t ride the bike that fast but I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole.’ Or they hit a car.”, to me, it’s entirely possible that these rental bikes (which are much heavier than most standard bikes/e-bikes), don’t have the same brake system, or the rider isn’t used to the brake feel of that bike.
I’m an experienced cyclist and e-scooter rider, but rentals feel completely foreign. They don’t react like mine, don’t stop like mine, don’t accelerate like mine, they don’t roll like mine, etc.
It’s no wonder that the risk goes way up in rental riders who are also not experienced and/or elderly.
Around where I live, I see a lot of older folks on e-bikes. This is a GOOD THING as it gets them out, gives them independence, and enables them to explore their community with ease.
However, I’d say that a good majority are riding fat tire, folding e-bikes, which handle differently to a standard-sized urban bike (and they are significantly heavier!). The learning curve and experience needed to ride them is a bit higher because of that.
One other factor for rentals’ brakes: they could need to be replaced due to wear from heavy usage. Even with experience on the same type of rental bike doesn’t mean much if their brakes are all at different wear levels.
Yes, and also, I’ve heard of brakes on rental e-scooters being vandalized (cables cut), which result in crashes. It’s entirely possible that sabotage also happens on rental e-bikes, but who knows how many crashes are a result of that.
My first thought was, who rides anything without testing the brakes being the first thing you do. But then I thought some more.
I also wonder if it’s even possible for people to determine how fast they are going. Is there a speedometer? If the thing is motorized, then there should be one!
I actually don’t remember if there’s a speedometer built into the handlebar, or if it tells you through the app (phone mount built-in).
But I don’t think it’s so much not knowing the speed, but people not realizing that their effort is basically amplified. So it may feel like you are not putting in a lot of effort (i.e “I’m going slow”), but the scooter or bike is putting out a good amount (i.e. you’re actually going faster than you think!).
And for those who don’t know, an e-bike may have a 250 - 1000+ watt motor. An average cyclist may only be able to put out a sustained 100-200w, so they actually get the power of a much stronger rider.
And for those who don’t know, an e-bike may have a 250 - 1000+ watt motor.
True, but as far as I know, no city-approved rental company is renting bikes with anything greater than 750watts, as it would be a major liability, especially when the rental companies don’t offer helmets.
If anyone’s city is offering e-bikes with motors over750 watts, I would be very interested to hear about it.
Rentals, likely not. But private e-bikes can get to 1000+ watts or more.
Even a 500w motor is a lot, and for someone who would typically ride at 150w (their own power), it would feel like they have superpowers.
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skill issue, but they blame the vehicle because they can’t be wrong.
Kinda like the great gas pedal scandal 13 years ago.
I’m definitely out of the loop about a great gas pedal scandal, could you elaborate or post a link to something relevant?
Basically around 2010 some people crashed their Toyota cars because the gas pedal got stuck to the floor, and there was a huge lawsuit over it. People blamed the new drive by wire throttle as the fault, saying it would get stuck at full power. Even NASA got involved at some point to look at claims that cosmic rays could be causing a bit flip that makes the car go full send.
While there were factors that may have contributed to one or more of the accidents, such as carpets getting caught on the gas pedal, with the result being every manufacturer now has to have hooks to secure the driver’s side floor mat from sliding into the pedals (and dealerships will remove any unsafe floor mats during service), to the gas pedal design being redone on every car to make it harder to get stuck like that (all gas pedals are bottom hinged now), and the fact that modern cars have to override the gas with the brake, so left foot braking maneuvers and heel toe downshifts in manual cars are now virtually impossible, the real problem is mainly skill issue.
Many of the drivers involved in these accidents were old, diabetic, or both - two groups of people that have diminished proprioception, that is, the ability to know where your limbs are. They will tell you with a life to bet they pressed all the way on the brake, because when you can’t feel where your feet are, your brain fills in the gaps and assumes, but they really were pressed on the gas thinking they were pressed on the brake, then monkey brain takes over as the car launches forward (or backward), and they press harder on the “brake”, when they’re really on the gas and that’s how they full send it into the front of a shopping center building. But, you know, it’s definitely not the driver’s fault. Obviously something’s wrong with the car.
Toyota was the focus because the Toyota Corolla and Toyota Camry are extremely popular cars among normal people and older people.
Thanks for the write up! I’m not in the US so I’m quite often unaware of lawsuits since we don’t have that system here
It was an interesting time. Mass panic caused a lot of people to sell their Corollas for cheap.
Old people do have less control - this is the case with cars and bikes - but while they would never get up to dangerous speeds anymore on a normal bike, an ebike empowers them to go way faster than they can control - just like a car would.
Never say never, but ebikes do make it a lot easier.
Whenever I ride my bike, I’m really scared of grannies (and grandpas) on e-bikes. They have no concept of speed, no situational awareness and no control. Just like with cars, but you’re not even safe on cycle paths.
Aside rom Cars my grief always and every time comes from pedestrians with dogs. Dogs on one side of the path, owner on the other, with a taut leash between them, multiple dogs and twisted leads, large dogs with older small woman owners who are unable to control them and they get pulled along where the dog wants to go Dig taking a shit in the middle if the path while I wait this morning for another example.
Just this morning on a shared path, 3 lots of people with dogs that were unable to control them properly necessitating me swerving off the path or coming to a complete stop while they try to get the shit show of crossed or twisted leads sorted. This does not mean all dogs and owners but a significant %.
The ol tripwire!
he said. “People, when they come in and I ask what happened, they say ‘I didn’t ride the bike that fast but I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole.’ Or they hit a car.”
You squeeze the brakes with your hands; it’s not rocket surgery. Even the most bare-bones ebike will have brakes capable of braking hard enough to stop abruptly if needed.
This is less an issue of ebikes and more an issue that people don’t know how to ride a bicycle properly. People should not be getting on an ebike if they don’t even know the basic fundamentals of riding a bike.
‘I didn’t ride the bike that fast but I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole.’
Target fixation with a side of panic inaction. Also, they could stop it from hitting the pole. They didn’t stop it from hitting the pole. Take some responsibility for your actions.
It has the same energy as “my accelerator got stuck and I couldn’t stop my car”. There are ways to stop the car, you just didn’t do any of them.
I’ll drop my whole transmission by slamming my car into park at 60mph before I just sit there and do nothing
laughs in manual
The only difference between park and neutral, as they both disengage the torque converter, is a small pin called a “parking pawl”. It’s basically not capable of stopping a vehicle. Your best bet is always the parking brake. I refuse to own a car without a physical one, they should be mandated as a safety item honestly.
I didn’t ride the bike that fast but i couldn’t stop it drom hitting the pole.
Sounds like someone who was going to fast would say.
I think there is this mistaken idea that if something is generally available, especially without licensing or other restrictions, then just anybody can operate/use it safely. These folks aren’t even wearing proper attire or PPE for operating these vehicles. But hey, they grew up drinking out of the water hose or whatever other nonsense they think makes them impervious to the laws of physics. Truly, we’re all sorry your parents didn’t love you and neglected you, now put a fucking helmet on.
It is more a problem with ebikes than with normal ones. Most of those people would not be nearly as fast on a normal bike than on an ebike.
Raja, who is executive vice chair of emergency medicine at Mass General Brigham, said injured older riders he treats often spontaneously decided to rent an e-bike.
“They will walk out of a building and see a rental and say, ‘I will use one of these,’” he said. “That spontaneity means they don’t have a helmet or much experience.”
So, skill issue.
Remind me of this video https://youtu.be/2JYJF9L5YW4
Some are close to light motorbikes too. Hey gramps, go drive a motorbike without helmet or knowledge!!
I see so many super old people on ebikes and non of them wear a helmet, ever. I saw 2 blood puddles at the side of the road with an old person and a bicycle on the side of the road in the past two years.
Yeah I have a friend who owns one that is much more powerful than a motorbike. Dude gets in full biker gear (including backplate and motorcycling helmet) to drive it at full power
That spontaneity means they don’t have a helmet
the fuck is going through their head, other than a steel pole
That seemed very on purpose.
Paywall.
De-walled https://archive.is/KoYVz
