If Kamala looses: All of the blame gets put on third party voters for not “voting hard enough” (especially if she wins the popular vote and looses in the electoral college). Absolutely none of the blame gets put on her supporting genocide, her vague positions, the fact that her campaign page contains very little about her views or policies, her support of fracking, her general support of oil and gas, her support of genocide, and her support for imperialism. Of course that could all be incorrect but Kamala refuses to dispute those claims.
If Kamala wins: She will do basically nothing, compromise with the Republicans, allow states to ban abortion, allow states to restrict womens rights, allow states to ban trans healthcare, generally allow the far-right to do whatever they want, and continue to fund genocide. When all of this happens third party voters will be blamed for “not voting hard enough” and Kamala will take no responsibility whatever.
Regardless of outcome the next election: The Democrat candidate will be even more right wing because leftists didn’t “vote hard enough”, they will be even more bipartisan and even less progressive. All of the Liberals will demand everyone vote for this candidate yet the candidate will make no attempt to implement any popular policy. Americas rapid decline into fascism will continue and nobody in power will do anything to stop it.
Once again I ask the question what harm is reduced by “harm reduction”? If anything a more accurate term would be slowing down fascism. But what Liberals refuse to answer is what practical purpose is there to slowing down fascism? Congratulations you get maybe a few extra decades from fascism but then what? Clearly Liberals are buying their time but what exactly are they buying their time for? What is the grand strategy? We’ve already seen the Democratic Candidate clearly use fascist rhetoric, how long is it until these compromise candidates compromise the rights of minorities? How long until they compromise on Fascism? I would vote “harm reduction” if I knew that at the end of it all theres a plan to eventually fight back but I dont think there is one. I think the Liberal plan is to keep doing “harm reduction” indefinitely, however even if you’re a hardcore liberal you have to acknowledge thats a fundamentally unsustainable plan.
TLDR: The only people responsible for Democrats not getting elected are the Democrats themselves and their corporate sponsors who hold them back from instituting popular policy, I get its easy to pin the blame on some group but fundamentally thats little more then a logical fallacy.
what harm is reduced by “harm reduction”? If anything a more accurate term would be slowing down fascism.
That’s exactly it. Harm reduction. Not eliminating harm altogether, but reducing the amount of it that takes place.
Will Harris continue and introduce policies that are antithetical to working-class interests? Yes. Would Trump do the same? Yes, and more.
The situation is complete shit, and nobody wants to just have to vote for the lesser of two evils. Of course we’d all like a stronger, more left-leaning party than the Democrats.
But not voting for the Democrats means getting the even worse fascist party.
When you only have two options, and one of them will inevitably be chosen as the outcome, the most you can possibly do is choose the one that leads to the least harm. Hence, harm reduction.
If we had ranked-choice/rated voting, third party votes as your primary vote cast would be ideal, but we don’t, and until we can even get close to something like that in the US, it’s imperative we don’t let fascists come into power.
You don’t solve Democrats being weak by siphoning their votes off to third-party candidates with even weaker overall pull on the voter base, just to let Republicans win.
“I would vote “harm reduction” if I knew that at the end of it all theres a plan to eventually fight back but I dont think there is one.”
You don’t increase your chances of a future plan being implemented to fight back against fascism by actively reducing the chances of winning the election of the party most likely to favor your ideal plan in the future.
You either get a 0% chance of your plan happening by voting fascist, or literally any number above 0% by voting for the party that’s not as fascist. And the choice will be made with or without you, so you might as well help to influence it.
You didn’t answer how harm reduction works as a long term strategy which is being done right now. In addition you didn’t answer whats the point of buying extra time.
You can check out the other comment I wrote in response to a similar response here, but I’ll give an additional short answer here too.
The point of buying extra time is to increase the chance of any other action being taken against the right succeeding. It doesn’t matter what that action is (although I did give a list in that other comment), and that’s not what my comment was originally about. It was solely about the fact that voting for the lesser of two evils is objectively better than letting the worse of two evils have a higher chance of getting into power.
Harm reduction doesn’t work as a long-term strategy on its own, but not doing it just means any other politically beneficial action you want to take is less likely to succeed, since there’s now an even bigger fascist in power.
I would be fine if the “harm reduction” politican didn’t actively go against other actions taken. If Liberals were willing to do anything in addition to harm reduction I would respect them even slightly. Fundamentally the problem is nothing else is being done, we have incompetent and lazy people on the “left” while the right is completely fascist. You and I may acknowledge that harm reduction alone cannot stand as a real political strategy but until Liberals understand that as well it fundementally stands as a false hope and leads people to complacency.
Of course, we can definitely agree on that. Liberals don’t seem to understand that voting Democrat isn’t the end of the road for positive political change.
But of course, if liberals have no power at all, then changing their mind won’t exactly lead to them doing any action in the end anyways. Regardless of how stacked the deck is, voting Democrat at least won’t lead to as bad a result.
What type of Nostradumbassery is this? You have no clue what Harris is or is not going to do. What YOU are doing however, is predicting her behavior in such a way that it conveniently falls within the boundaries of some ideological fantasy of yours that involves you as the hero, chanting
“i tOLd yOu so!”
to anyone dumb enough to listen.
None of what you said is even remotely accurate or based in any semblance of reality in which it could even be challenged properly. The only thing to do at this point is to simply dismiss it as nonsense.
.
I said that myself, however if Kamala refuses to officially document any of her positions then I think its fair to go by her interviews and statements. Im her public appearances she has expressed support for Israel, publicly abandoned anti-fracking while supporting “energy independence”, and made it very clear that she would compromise all of her positions in the name of “bipartisanship”.
You’re getting one or the other. Only, one hates women, abhors the LGBTQ+ and intends to revoke many of their rights, has threatened to use the military against American citizens, will bring back concentration camps, is a convicted rapist, and a 34 time convicted felon, will enact Project 2025, is easily bought out by Christian fundamentalists and Russia, and has sad that he will help Israel “finish the job.”
He is going to turn Palestine into a crater. So stop pretending this is about them when you know this. He will be worse. Provenly worse.
So let’s talk about being a puppet mmmmkay??
Because as we all know, Shill Stein’s stings were made in Russia and Cornell West’s masters won’t even take him out of his box.
You’ve got no options other than to keep the bad one out. And if you’re going to respond with “bUt tHeY aRe bOtH bAd!” I’m going to assume you can’t tell the difference between a speck of dirt in your glass full of water, and glass full of raw sewage, and just end this right here.
It’s crazy how if I vote third party, or not at all I am both voting for Harris and for Trump, depending on who you ask.
My theory, and it is just a theory, is that Trump wins the electoral college vote, but Kamala wins the popular vote by a wide enough margin that by the next election, if there is one, they start to abolish the electoral college. Maybe then a third party candidate could actually make some changes.
I think the fact that Walz spoke out against the ec shows that even he thinks this is a likely outcome.
One of Trump’s goals is to “crack down” (aka ban) protests. So let’s get Kamala elected first, and then you can bust out the molotovs or whatever the plan is, please.
If Kamala looses: All of the blame gets put on third party voters for not “voting hard enough” (especially if she wins the popular vote and looses in the electoral college). Absolutely none of the blame gets put on her supporting genocide, her vague positions, the fact that her campaign page contains very little about her views or policies, her support of fracking, her general support of oil and gas, her support of genocide, and her support for imperialism. Of course that could all be incorrect but Kamala refuses to dispute those claims.
If Kamala wins: She will do basically nothing, compromise with the Republicans, allow states to ban abortion, allow states to restrict womens rights, allow states to ban trans healthcare, generally allow the far-right to do whatever they want, and continue to fund genocide. When all of this happens third party voters will be blamed for “not voting hard enough” and Kamala will take no responsibility whatever.
Regardless of outcome the next election: The Democrat candidate will be even more right wing because leftists didn’t “vote hard enough”, they will be even more bipartisan and even less progressive. All of the Liberals will demand everyone vote for this candidate yet the candidate will make no attempt to implement any popular policy. Americas rapid decline into fascism will continue and nobody in power will do anything to stop it.
Once again I ask the question what harm is reduced by “harm reduction”? If anything a more accurate term would be slowing down fascism. But what Liberals refuse to answer is what practical purpose is there to slowing down fascism? Congratulations you get maybe a few extra decades from fascism but then what? Clearly Liberals are buying their time but what exactly are they buying their time for? What is the grand strategy? We’ve already seen the Democratic Candidate clearly use fascist rhetoric, how long is it until these compromise candidates compromise the rights of minorities? How long until they compromise on Fascism? I would vote “harm reduction” if I knew that at the end of it all theres a plan to eventually fight back but I dont think there is one. I think the Liberal plan is to keep doing “harm reduction” indefinitely, however even if you’re a hardcore liberal you have to acknowledge thats a fundamentally unsustainable plan.
TLDR: The only people responsible for Democrats not getting elected are the Democrats themselves and their corporate sponsors who hold them back from instituting popular policy, I get its easy to pin the blame on some group but fundamentally thats little more then a logical fallacy.
That’s exactly it. Harm reduction. Not eliminating harm altogether, but reducing the amount of it that takes place.
Will Harris continue and introduce policies that are antithetical to working-class interests? Yes. Would Trump do the same? Yes, and more.
The situation is complete shit, and nobody wants to just have to vote for the lesser of two evils. Of course we’d all like a stronger, more left-leaning party than the Democrats.
But not voting for the Democrats means getting the even worse fascist party.
When you only have two options, and one of them will inevitably be chosen as the outcome, the most you can possibly do is choose the one that leads to the least harm. Hence, harm reduction.
If we had ranked-choice/rated voting, third party votes as your primary vote cast would be ideal, but we don’t, and until we can even get close to something like that in the US, it’s imperative we don’t let fascists come into power.
You don’t solve Democrats being weak by siphoning their votes off to third-party candidates with even weaker overall pull on the voter base, just to let Republicans win.
You don’t increase your chances of a future plan being implemented to fight back against fascism by actively reducing the chances of winning the election of the party most likely to favor your ideal plan in the future.
You either get a 0% chance of your plan happening by voting fascist, or literally any number above 0% by voting for the party that’s not as fascist. And the choice will be made with or without you, so you might as well help to influence it.
Couldn’t have said it better! Well done!
You didn’t answer how harm reduction works as a long term strategy which is being done right now. In addition you didn’t answer whats the point of buying extra time.
You can check out the other comment I wrote in response to a similar response here, but I’ll give an additional short answer here too.
The point of buying extra time is to increase the chance of any other action being taken against the right succeeding. It doesn’t matter what that action is (although I did give a list in that other comment), and that’s not what my comment was originally about. It was solely about the fact that voting for the lesser of two evils is objectively better than letting the worse of two evils have a higher chance of getting into power.
Harm reduction doesn’t work as a long-term strategy on its own, but not doing it just means any other politically beneficial action you want to take is less likely to succeed, since there’s now an even bigger fascist in power.
I would be fine if the “harm reduction” politican didn’t actively go against other actions taken. If Liberals were willing to do anything in addition to harm reduction I would respect them even slightly. Fundamentally the problem is nothing else is being done, we have incompetent and lazy people on the “left” while the right is completely fascist. You and I may acknowledge that harm reduction alone cannot stand as a real political strategy but until Liberals understand that as well it fundementally stands as a false hope and leads people to complacency.
Of course, we can definitely agree on that. Liberals don’t seem to understand that voting Democrat isn’t the end of the road for positive political change.
But of course, if liberals have no power at all, then changing their mind won’t exactly lead to them doing any action in the end anyways. Regardless of how stacked the deck is, voting Democrat at least won’t lead to as bad a result.
What type of Nostradumbassery is this? You have no clue what Harris is or is not going to do. What YOU are doing however, is predicting her behavior in such a way that it conveniently falls within the boundaries of some ideological fantasy of yours that involves you as the hero, chanting
“i tOLd yOu so!”
to anyone dumb enough to listen.
None of what you said is even remotely accurate or based in any semblance of reality in which it could even be challenged properly. The only thing to do at this point is to simply dismiss it as nonsense. .
I said that myself, however if Kamala refuses to officially document any of her positions then I think its fair to go by her interviews and statements. Im her public appearances she has expressed support for Israel, publicly abandoned anti-fracking while supporting “energy independence”, and made it very clear that she would compromise all of her positions in the name of “bipartisanship”.
Okay…. Cool. Because Trump will be SO much better on these issues.
Man. I really wish people understood how this shit works.
Strawman argument, critiquing your favorite corporate sponsored puppet doesn’t mean I support the other guy.
You’re getting one or the other. Only, one hates women, abhors the LGBTQ+ and intends to revoke many of their rights, has threatened to use the military against American citizens, will bring back concentration camps, is a convicted rapist, and a 34 time convicted felon, will enact Project 2025, is easily bought out by Christian fundamentalists and Russia, and has sad that he will help Israel “finish the job.”
He is going to turn Palestine into a crater. So stop pretending this is about them when you know this. He will be worse. Provenly worse.
So let’s talk about being a puppet mmmmkay??
Because as we all know, Shill Stein’s stings were made in Russia and Cornell West’s masters won’t even take him out of his box.
You’ve got no options other than to keep the bad one out. And if you’re going to respond with “bUt tHeY aRe bOtH bAd!” I’m going to assume you can’t tell the difference between a speck of dirt in your glass full of water, and glass full of raw sewage, and just end this right here.
It’s crazy how if I vote third party, or not at all I am both voting for Harris and for Trump, depending on who you ask.
My theory, and it is just a theory, is that Trump wins the electoral college vote, but Kamala wins the popular vote by a wide enough margin that by the next election, if there is one, they start to abolish the electoral college. Maybe then a third party candidate could actually make some changes.
I think the fact that Walz spoke out against the ec shows that even he thinks this is a likely outcome.
Unlikely, both parties love the electoral college because it destroys any chance of a third party victory.
One of Trump’s goals is to “crack down” (aka ban) protests. So let’s get Kamala elected first, and then you can bust out the molotovs or whatever the plan is, please.
Biden has literally cracked down on protests, why wouldn’t Kamala Harris do the same?
Which protests? I hadn’t heard about this
Have you not been paying attention to the Palestine protests?
Apparently not. I read about college campuses strong-arming protests, but not about federal action.