Provoked by Iran? I think you should read some history dude. Nothing happens in vacuum and Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but thinking that anyone would just sit and watch their home be occupied is ignorant at best. The irony being that Israel funded Hamas. They can thank themselves for those deaths to be completely honest.
Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but
What kind of abuser rationale is this? “Look what you made me do?” That twisted logic is exactly what Israel is using to justify their rampage at the moment. Killing innocent civilians is not OK, full stop.
There sure is a place that popped up in 1948 that has carte Blanche to do whatever the fuck they want to surrounding areas because they have a trillion dollar war machine mommy that comes calling every time she hears baby cry foul.
I guess you skipped all that in your perusing of Wikipedia summaries.
I can’t speak for the other commenter, but I’m not naive enough to think conflict just appeared out of nowhere. It’s come from beefs between historic tribes and stretches back to before people wrote things down.
It’s more like “those cops were just regular people whose families were beating other people up, then someone with a lot more Big Sticks came over and told them they’re now part of a special group who are the only ones allowed to beat people up and gave them a shiny gold star plaque? to prove it”
Only instead of a gold star, it was drawing lines on a map and saying “this is yours, have fun”, and pretending to not see anything negative they do after that.
All they had to do was just keep swimming. But no, they got a stick up their ass that told them “hey Bro, go on land Bro, surely you will not regret walking on land” and now my ass has to go to work on Monday.
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I’d say, you’ll never achieve peace by attacking the other side, but you can only achieve peace if both sides want it. White Americans in the South during 1938 absolutely did not want peace with African Americans in much the same way Israelis don’t want peace with Palestinians today. It’s oversimplified but this feeling has always gone mostly one way. Black Americans have mostly just wanted peace, they don’t want revenge. The same goes for Palestinians. It’s truly amazing how hard it is/was for many white Americans and Israelis to learn and accept that fact.
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I can understand killing their former owner, but not random civilians who had the misfortune of being born white.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Hamas tortured and slaughtered hundreds of random civilians at a music festival.
I agree, which is why you’ll note that I’m not defending Israel’s actions. I said they were entitled to do something, but not this. Keep swinging at that strawman, though.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I agree, and can’t defend what Israel are doing. The irony is that both sides are essentially doing the same thing that they accuse the other of doing. They are both hyper-aggressive, racist zealots. I don’t know what kind of “reset” could make it stop.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I’m not American and never heard of this incident until today, so I can’t provide an informed comment. I think I agree with your assessment in general, other than the killing of innocents. I understand why they did it but I can’t condone it.
They are not doing the same thing at all. One group is defending their home, trying to survive, living under an occupation with a horrible life, no state, no support, and are constantly losing their home, while the other side is spreading, taking their homes, and trying to do a genocide and prevent the other side from having a state. It’s two completely different things.
"Israel funded Hamas” has to be one of the most backwards takes I’ve seen repeated here.
By that you mean that Israel eased restrictions according to an agreed upon schedule approved by international facilitators, allowed access to more construction materials, and issued more work and travel visas to Gazans. In other words, exactly the things that Palestinian people advocated for.
Do your research. This has been a hidden secret in the international community for decades. Isreal did fund them to keep the tension high between them and the Palestinian authority. When even the foreign menister of my own country confirmed this I was really surprised as well. But nothing should really supprise anyone about this conflict. It’s in Isreals interest to keep this conflict on going.
I respect that you got another opinion but maybe you should look into it and see that it is true. I don’t spread misinformation, that is the worst thing I know about. I try to always have my fact straight.
If you take a moment to actually look into these claims that Israel funded Hamas, you’ll find that it’s exactly what I’m describing.
Please, send me a source that describes exactly what Israel did - not an out of context quote, not a vague accusation, but what specific actions or mechanism Israel used to help Hamas. You will find only actions that Palestinian advocates were calling for.
It’s easy to start from the point of view that Israel is bad and deserves everything that happens to them. It’s a lot harder to look at objective facts and think critically for yourself.
As I said, they allowed international aid, on an approved schedule. Or do you think that the ruling party of Gaza should not be allowed to move money they raised for the people of Gaza into the strip?
Hamas already raised the money and it was facilitated by Qatar.
Israel is criticized for keeping funds out of Gaza and for letting funds into Gaza? Does that really make sense, or is that what a pundit told you to think?
What? That’s not what happened in that article at all. These weren’t public aid funds being sent to Gaza intercepted by Hamas, or whatever you are trying to say. These were secret payments given to Hamas that Israel found out about and allowed anyway so that the terrorist group could be strengthened against the then legitimate government of Palestinian. Suitcases of cash aren’t for legit payments lol.
That was what Netanyahu said out loud but he’s also a known liar. You’re ignoring the other statements with their true intentions.
As far back as December 2012, Mr. Netanyahu told the prominent Israeli journalist Dan Margalit that it was important to keep Hamas strong, as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Mr. Margalit, in an interview, said that Mr. Netanyahu told him that having two strong rivals, including Hamas, would lessen pressure on him to negotiate toward a Palestinian state.
Shlomo Brom, a retired general and former deputy to Israel’s national security adviser, said an empowered Hamas helped Mr. Netanyahu avoid negotiating over a Palestinian state.
“One effective way to prevent a two-state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,” he said in an interview. The division gives Mr. Netanyahu an excuse to disengage from peace talks, Mr. Brom said, adding that he can say, “I have no partner.”
Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who is now Mr. Netanyahu’s finance minister, put it bluntly in 2015, the year he was elected to Parliament.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden,” he said. “Hamas is an asset.”
Provoked by Iran? I think you should read some history dude. Nothing happens in vacuum and Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but thinking that anyone would just sit and watch their home be occupied is ignorant at best. The irony being that Israel funded Hamas. They can thank themselves for those deaths to be completely honest.
What kind of abuser rationale is this? “Look what you made me do?” That twisted logic is exactly what Israel is using to justify their rampage at the moment. Killing innocent civilians is not OK, full stop.
Okay maybe Israel should have not been doing that since 1948 then
You should take ab_intra’s advice and read some history. People in the middle east didn’t discover violence in 1948.
There sure is a place that popped up in 1948 that has carte Blanche to do whatever the fuck they want to surrounding areas because they have a trillion dollar war machine mommy that comes calling every time she hears baby cry foul.
I guess you skipped all that in your perusing of Wikipedia summaries.
I can’t take seriously anybody who throws around any single date as the beginning of conflict in the ME.
I can’t speak for the other commenter, but I’m not naive enough to think conflict just appeared out of nowhere. It’s come from beefs between historic tribes and stretches back to before people wrote things down.
It’s more like “those cops were just regular people whose families were beating other people up, then someone with a lot more Big Sticks came over and told them they’re now part of a special group who are the only ones allowed to beat people up and gave them a shiny gold
starplaque? to prove it”Only instead of a gold star, it was drawing lines on a map and saying “this is yours, have fun”, and pretending to not see anything negative they do after that.
Exactly. Can’t we all just get along… and blame the British?
Personally, I blame Ichthyostega.
All they had to do was just keep swimming. But no, they got a stick up their ass that told them “hey Bro, go on land Bro, surely you will not regret walking on land” and now my ass has to go to work on Monday.
Of course not, but there was a people that wasn’t in the middle east doing violence until that period.
Ooof you really went full Nazi on that one, eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I’d say, you’ll never achieve peace by attacking the other side, but you can only achieve peace if both sides want it. White Americans in the South during 1938 absolutely did not want peace with African Americans in much the same way Israelis don’t want peace with Palestinians today. It’s oversimplified but this feeling has always gone mostly one way. Black Americans have mostly just wanted peace, they don’t want revenge. The same goes for Palestinians. It’s truly amazing how hard it is/was for many white Americans and Israelis to learn and accept that fact.
I can understand killing their former owner, but not random civilians who had the misfortune of being born white.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Hamas tortured and slaughtered hundreds of random civilians at a music festival.
Maybe you don’t understand it, but that’s exactly what’s happening to the 15 to 25,000 children killed by Israel in retaliation for 7-Oct.
I agree, which is why you’ll note that I’m not defending Israel’s actions. I said they were entitled to do something, but not this. Keep swinging at that strawman, though.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I agree, and can’t defend what Israel are doing. The irony is that both sides are essentially doing the same thing that they accuse the other of doing. They are both hyper-aggressive, racist zealots. I don’t know what kind of “reset” could make it stop.
I’m not American and never heard of this incident until today, so I can’t provide an informed comment. I think I agree with your assessment in general, other than the killing of innocents. I understand why they did it but I can’t condone it.
They are not doing the same thing at all. One group is defending their home, trying to survive, living under an occupation with a horrible life, no state, no support, and are constantly losing their home, while the other side is spreading, taking their homes, and trying to do a genocide and prevent the other side from having a state. It’s two completely different things.
"Israel funded Hamas” has to be one of the most backwards takes I’ve seen repeated here.
By that you mean that Israel eased restrictions according to an agreed upon schedule approved by international facilitators, allowed access to more construction materials, and issued more work and travel visas to Gazans. In other words, exactly the things that Palestinian people advocated for.
Do your research. This has been a hidden secret in the international community for decades. Isreal did fund them to keep the tension high between them and the Palestinian authority. When even the foreign menister of my own country confirmed this I was really surprised as well. But nothing should really supprise anyone about this conflict. It’s in Isreals interest to keep this conflict on going.
I respect that you got another opinion but maybe you should look into it and see that it is true. I don’t spread misinformation, that is the worst thing I know about. I try to always have my fact straight.
If you take a moment to actually look into these claims that Israel funded Hamas, you’ll find that it’s exactly what I’m describing.
Please, send me a source that describes exactly what Israel did - not an out of context quote, not a vague accusation, but what specific actions or mechanism Israel used to help Hamas. You will find only actions that Palestinian advocates were calling for.
It’s easy to start from the point of view that Israel is bad and deserves everything that happens to them. It’s a lot harder to look at objective facts and think critically for yourself.
They literally enabled suitcases full of cash into Hamas from Qatar. And he’s said in public statements, it’s important to keep Hamas strong to balance the Palestinian Authority and prevent a Palestinian state.
As I said, they allowed international aid, on an approved schedule. Or do you think that the ruling party of Gaza should not be allowed to move money they raised for the people of Gaza into the strip?
Hamas already raised the money and it was facilitated by Qatar.
Israel is criticized for keeping funds out of Gaza and for letting funds into Gaza? Does that really make sense, or is that what a pundit told you to think?
What? That’s not what happened in that article at all. These weren’t public aid funds being sent to Gaza intercepted by Hamas, or whatever you are trying to say. These were secret payments given to Hamas that Israel found out about and allowed anyway so that the terrorist group could be strengthened against the then legitimate government of Palestinian. Suitcases of cash aren’t for legit payments lol.
Hamas is the ruling body in Gaza. Where do you think donations go? Who do you think is receiving them on the other end?
This was the first step of easing restrictions as a show of good faith. It was literally allowing money that people had donated to Gaza enter Gaza.
Hamas agreed to cool the rocket attacks on Israeli civilians, and Israel agreed to begin easing border restrictions.
Don’t take it from me, here is AP News:
That was what Netanyahu said out loud but he’s also a known liar. You’re ignoring the other statements with their true intentions.
There’s video clips and everything.
Normally in football, they keep the goal posts still.
Exactly right:
Palestinian activists: Israel needs to ease border restrictions and allow more goods and funds into Gaza!
Israel: (Does that)
Palestinian activists: Why are you helping Hamas??