Logitech CEO lays out the potential future of the mouse and keyboard. Logitech is working on a forever mouse that has a subscription-based model.

During a recent episode of The Verge’s Decoder podcast, Logitech CEO Hanneke Faber shed some possible insight into the company’s view on one of its most important products. Saying that “the mouse built this house,” Faber shares the planning behind a Forever Mouse, a premium product that the company hopes will be the last you ever have to buy. There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.

For now, details on a Forever Mouse are thin, but you better believe there will be a catch. The Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.

  • vext01@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
    234·
    4 months ago

    premium mouse that receives constant updates

    Come on. How many firmware updates can we really expect for a mouse?

    I’ve had an m570 for about 10 years. Every time it broke, I fixed it. Why do we need a subscription?

  • skyspydude1@lemmy.worldEnglish
    214·
    4 months ago

    Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.

    Bull-fucking-shit. That’s just not how any of this works.

    There are plenty of companies that make appliances that last a long fucking time, and don’t have to rely on fucking DLC micro transaction AI bullshit. The reason Instant Pot went bankrupt is the same reason a ton of popular companies have recently had issues: They got bought by private equity (who also owned Pyrex and fucked them over), saddled with a shitton of bad debt, squeezed of every bit of brand value they had, and then left to fall apart as the PE firm made off with millions.

    The fact that the writer correlated “quality, durable good” with “unsuccessful business and bankruptcy” is absolutely one of the worst takes, and really shows just how pervasive this disgusting idea of “must be disposable to be profitable” really is.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
      17·
      4 months ago

      Partially true, but also they wouldn’t invest in something that lasts forever (without it costing an absurd amount of money or the subscription requirement). I like this video that shows the issue pretty well. (TLDW: Communist Germany made glass so durable it didn’t break as a product to sell to the west. No company would purchase it though because they made most of their profit from selling replacements. The glass is now what we call Gorilla Glass, which is really only available on phones, which are designed to be replaced every few years anyway.)

      • CybranM@feddit.nuEnglish
        1·
        4 months ago

        I set my settings using ghub then stored it on the mouse and uninstalled ghub. Works really well for me

    • yessikgEnglish
      0·
      4 months ago

      I stopped when they added AI to their software

  • hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.worldEnglish
    74·
    4 months ago

    Logitech’s desire to put AI in my IO devices is exactly why I am moving to a different manufacturer. I want solid hardware, not hardware as a service. HP also is trying this with printers and it’s total bullshit.

    If I am paying a monthly fee, I’d better not also have to buy garbage hardware. That better be provided for free and replaced when it inevitably fails.

    • stealth_cookies@lemmy.caEnglish
      10·
      4 months ago

      Logitech pissed me off years ago when they didn’t honour a warranty because I bought a flawed product before they extended the warranty on them.

      I have not even been tempted by their products because there are so many other peripheral manufacturers out there that put out great products.

  • pachrist@lemmy.worldEnglish
    52·
    4 months ago

    I hate this approach to business.

    Coupling subscriptions with forced obscolecence is a nightmare. If HP made the best printer money could buy, using it with a subscription model would be a hard sell. But they make shit printers that die at the drop of a hat, so coupling them with a subscription is asinine.

    Logitech makes a decent mouse, passable webcams, and shit keyboards.

    Just in case anyone from Logitech ever reads this, I own 2 MX Verticals, an MX Ergo, and an MX Master 2S. I love them all, but I’d rather use an OEM bog standard Dell mouse than pay for a subscription.

    • calcopiritus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      4 months ago

      They way I got introduced to hardware as a service is that it was a solution to planned obsolescence.

      In theory, a hardware subscription means that if you pay for X months of that hardware, you gonna get it. Doesn’t matter if it breaks, it should be replaced while your subscription lasts.

      So taking that into account, the less the hardware breaks, the more profit they have. So not only should it eliminate planned obsolescence, it would make engineering for durable products an actually very profitable business.

      • Masamune@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6·
        4 months ago

        So, what is the difference between this approach and just selling an extended warranty?

        • calcopiritus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          4 months ago

          With subscription you don’t own the product, but also you don’t pay up front.

          With subscription, you should be able to buy as many months as you want. With extended warranty, I think companies usually only sell 1 extended warranty per item.

          (I’m pulling the prices out of my ass, don’t try to calculate which one is more “worth it”.

          Extended warranty:

          30€ for the mouse (3 years warranty) 5€ 1 year extended warranty.

          You are sure to have the item for at least 4 years. After that, you can use it until it breaks.

          Subscription:

          1€/month

          You get to use the mouse for exactly the months you paid for. No more, no less

          Also, with subscriptions you are likely to get a second hand item. But when you buy the item you are gonna get 1st hand unless you shop at Amazon.

          I personally wouldn’t buy a subscription, I prefer to own it. However, I’ll admit that it’s not black and white, and subscriptions also have some benefits.

          Another way instead of per time window is per use. For example, in the case of a mouse, per clicks.

          So if you buy 1.000.000 clicks and rarely use the computer, you get to own the mouse for a very long time for very cheap, just in case you ever want to use it. This is basically today’s planned obsolescence, except the item doesn’t become trash, the company would just reset the counter and you or the next client can keep using it. If you use it a lot, it’s going to become real expensive real fast though.

    • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      6·
      4 months ago

      I used to just buy Logitech when I needed something because it’s good quality and good value, they seem to be intent on moving away from both

    • Krauerking@lemy.lolEnglish
      2·
      4 months ago

      It’s really insane that they want the good press and loweree manufactured volume of a quality item… But also for it to fail and you need to buy up whenever they arbitrarily say so.

      It’s horrifying. Absolutely broken fucking mindset that only works if we truly are trapped having to buy from them and I just don’t see how that can be true before someone says fuck it and competes.

      It’s so grossly profit seeking I just will feel really defeated if it actually works.

    • Xenny@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      4 months ago

      The Logitech k120 is a worthy warrior. Id never get an expensive keyboard from them though

  • dan@upvote.auEnglish
    48·
    4 months ago

    I’ve already got a Forever Mouse though… I’m using a $25 Logitech M705 I bought 10 years ago, before they cheaped out and replaced the metal scrollwheel with a plastic one. Works great. I have to replace the battery once every two years or so. I’ve got an 11-year-old Logitech mouse at work too.

  • almost1337@lemm.eeEnglish
    41·
    4 months ago

    The Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.

    Man, we had to replace the fuse on ours four times before we gave up on it; I don’t think ‘product longevity’ was a major factor in the brand’s downfall. It also did a shit job of cooking rice.

    I also highly doubt Logitech’s ability to make a “forever” mouse with how many I’ve had to RMA due to faulty left click switches. Get your product design, supply chain, and QA in order before you start trying to tie people down with wholly unnecessary and unwanted subscriptions. Shitty ent seeking MBA vampires fucking everything up for everyone.

    • CaptDust@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      10·
      4 months ago

      Oh see I didn’t interpret the forever mouse as a single product, more likely they’d like to use even cheaper switches and components and make RMA/replacement normal under the subscription. New mouse every year for just $14.99/month - what a deal! Right, guys? Guys?

    • doxxx@lemmy.caEnglish
      3·
      4 months ago

      The Instant Pot is actually great at cooking rice using the pot-in-pot method: put a plain metal bowl with your rice and water (usually 1:1 ratio) in the Instant Pot on a wire rack and add about 1 1/2 cups of water to the Instant Pot. Steam for 10 minutes for white rice. Perfect every time.

  • Kekzkrieger@feddit.orgEnglish
    40·
    4 months ago

    Another proof ceo’s that most of those cunts in charge either got there by winning the birth lottery or bullshitted their way up and are complete clueless idiots. Any sane person with an idea of what they are doing knows its all bullshit.

  • EvilBit@lemmy.worldEnglish
    33·
    4 months ago

    The answer to this is simple. Go private. Get a buyout and delist so you aren’t literally required to permanently and constantly grow your company bigger and sell more than you did last year for the rest of eternity in the name of the almighty shareholders.

    Sell great hardware to people who need it, develop a loyal fan base, and treat them right, forever. I guarantee that the rate of valid, reasonable purchases of high-quality, durable new mice and keyboards is more than enough to sustain a very healthy company full of very talented employees forever, as long as they aren’t required to always make more money than ever before.

  • BearOfaTime@lemm.eeEnglish
    29·
    4 months ago

    Welp, looks like I just bought my last Logitech mouse. I’ve sworn by them for over 20 years.

    Nope, fuck you Logitech.

    • solsangraal@lemmy.zipEnglish
      7·
      4 months ago

      same. every logitech peripheral i’ve ever had was great, and the one time an old mouse i’d been using for 2 years broke, i emailed them about it and they sent me a MX master 2S, which was several tiers above the one i had, for free.

      oh well. time to find a new mouse brand

  • cmrn@lemmy.worldEnglish
    28·
    4 months ago

    Trying to make a flagship product and keep it pumped up through subscription sounds a lot like live service games.

    And those all fucking suck.

  • thegreenguy@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    28·
    4 months ago

    Weird, because I’m pretty sure all other mice can be used forever, as long as they don’t break.

      • werefreeatlast@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        4 months ago

        Allow me to translate the business language to understandable terms…we (Logitech) will sell customers (us) a hook. When they bite, they bite forever. They will pay us (Logitech) to use their own hardware! What a bunch of idiots!

        Additionally I would like to propose that we don’t sign up for apple or other fruit rentals or delivery subscriptions. If you want a banana, go to the market and get one. Then eat the banana. It should cost only a few cents since you basically consume the thing. Now, if you want a mouse, go to Amazon and buy one from there that is not Logitech. Then just hook it up to the computer and use it! That’s it! In fact, if you don’t return it, your compromise with the seller ends when they deliver it to your door. Both you and the seller walk away happy. There’s no fucking subscription to a mouse! WTF! That’s a company with two legs just about done shooting one off.

        • thegreenguy@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          1·
          4 months ago

          Additionally I would like to propose that we don’t sign up for apple or other fruit rentals or delivery subscriptions.

          Not yet

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      4 months ago

      Well switches for their MX Master series break all the damn time.

      I hate that I keep buying them, but they really are a perfect mouse other than the fatal flaw that pops up about 19 seconds after the warranty expires…

      • szczuroarturo@programming.devEnglish
        3·
        4 months ago

        Yeach unfortunetly purerly from ergonomical point of view those mf truly make the best mouses at every price point . Cheap 10 dolars mouse and keyboard, still the best ergonomics for this price. Lift , ergonomical mastery ,pure joy to use. Unfortunetly switch broke after a year and a half and since it was company provided mouse from the time when they went on a shopping spree for office equipment they dont have then anymore ( i literaly took the last one ). Now the only replacment i got is the cheap mouse and keyboard also from Logitech that on the other hand refuses to break and i want a goddam excuse to buy myself something better.

      • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        4 months ago

        I’m at the point where I’m maintaining three classic thumbball mice with a bag of replacement microswitches. I wouldn’t consider that viable for the typical consumer, but it works for me. Also these particular bluetooth models come with their own USB-A receiver, so I don’t rely on software updates either.

        That said, the ploopy thumbball may be my next daily driver.

  • cygnus@lemmy.caEnglish
    25·
    4 months ago

    Meh, I’m going to hold out for a subscription-based AI-enabled mousepad.