Some time ago I managed to sell my 3070 ti and buy a brand new RX 6800 for the same money. 99% of my desktop issues are now gone. Seriously, if you don’t need CUDA, don’t bother… Get rid of Nvidia it is not worth the hassle
I effectively did the same. While I’m happy NVIDIA is finally got their heads out of their butts and are acquiescing to this, it’s going to still be years before it’s on the same level as radeon in terms of stability and the just works factor.
That would be giving into the Linux kernel and wayland driver bigots who set out to destroy NVidia on Linux, simply because of the driver’s license. Linus, the kernel dev team, and wayland devs sought to break NVidia at every turn. A company that provided us with the best graphics cards on Linux for over a decade, because they couldn’t get in and mess with NVidia’s code and steal their secrets from their drivers. Don’t give into to that level of zealotry. If anything, NVidia and their users should sue Linus and all the wayland devs for the years of crap they’ve pulled. All over a license. I love Linux, and am forever indebted to Linus for starting it… but this zealotry over licensing is why GNU never got off the ground itself; and they should be spanked for what they did to us. Wayland devs especially, they should be banned from opensource dev work forever and crippled financially for the crime they’ve committed.
Is it that people don’t mind sounding like morons in public or that they think everybody else is stupid enough to fall for their nonsense? I always wonder when I read something like this.
How is it nonsense? Linus himself in the kernel mailing list and in public speaking has repeatedly gone after NVidia due to their licensing. In the kernel, he’s repeatedly cut NVidia off from using various kernel internals because they aren’t open source; attempting to cripple their driver. That’s fact. Check your history on it.
As for wayland, it could have been written to do absolutely anything they wanted it to do and be. They chose to not support NVidia due to the licensing, purposely choosing an incompatible way to display to try and force NVidia to change or to for NVidia to fall from it’s spot as market leader.
I feel bad for NVidia, caving this. An open source driver coming out, them adding features to work with wayland instead of the other way around. It wreaks of extortion by the kernel and wayland devs, to damage market share if the devs don’t get what they want. I hope they get sued for it and lose everything for it. It casts a terrible light on the open source community that it would make companies either capitulate, or the community tries to cut the company off at the knees. It was wrong and should be severely punished to prevent it ever happening again. As it is, no hardware company should trust Linux or offer to support it in any way, because it might turn around and bite you as it did NVidia.
In the small chance that this comment is serious, Nvidia is found this because the corporate server-based customers need the ability to troubleshoot and debug the driver.
The actual trade secrets are being moved into the proprietary firmware blob and out of the driver.
AMD used to have the same issue - their drivers were proprietary and buggy (anyone remember fglrx?). The difference is that they did something about it. Their modern drivers are open-source and mainlined so it’s easy for anyone to work on them. New kernel display/GPU features always come to AMD first, because the kernel developers working on the new feature can just add it to the AMD driver themselves.
Nvidia have open-source drivers now, but they’re still out of tree (so they’ll always lag behind the kernel) and AFAIK they have no plains to merge them into the kernel.
I appreciate Nvidia’s efforts, and their newer drivers are much better than older ones (especially now that they support explicit sync), but they’re just not as good as AMD’s.
So instead of accepting that the driver should be GPL and part of the kernel, you turn things around and pretend the development of the kernel is the way that it is because of a conspiracy against Nvidia?
The bit regarding Wayland doesn’t make sense, no idea what you’re getting at. Though maybe you don’t follow Linux developments?
It’s not a conspiracy. Here’s Linus, himself, publicly picking a fight with NVidia. All because of a driver not being open source. I love open source, I love the GPL, but no individual or company should be required to do business that way. It’s up to them, as is their right.
I appreciate the fruit of NVidia’s efforts… But that they were forced into it by a pack of wolves is morally wrong, and those responsible need to be ousted from open source, blacklisted from any IT work forever for needlessly inflicting harm on a company and it’s users over a licensing preference.
Some time ago I managed to sell my 3070 ti and buy a brand new RX 6800 for the same money. 99% of my desktop issues are now gone. Seriously, if you don’t need CUDA, don’t bother… Get rid of Nvidia it is not worth the hassle
I effectively did the same. While I’m happy NVIDIA is finally got their heads out of their butts and are acquiescing to this, it’s going to still be years before it’s on the same level as radeon in terms of stability and the just works factor.
It’s not NVidia’s fault. Never has been. It was a religious war over licensing of the driver.
If it was the “war” you implying it to be, it would be an ideological or moral one, not religious, but even then it wasn’t.
That would be giving into the Linux kernel and wayland driver bigots who set out to destroy NVidia on Linux, simply because of the driver’s license. Linus, the kernel dev team, and wayland devs sought to break NVidia at every turn. A company that provided us with the best graphics cards on Linux for over a decade, because they couldn’t get in and mess with NVidia’s code and steal their secrets from their drivers. Don’t give into to that level of zealotry. If anything, NVidia and their users should sue Linus and all the wayland devs for the years of crap they’ve pulled. All over a license. I love Linux, and am forever indebted to Linus for starting it… but this zealotry over licensing is why GNU never got off the ground itself; and they should be spanked for what they did to us. Wayland devs especially, they should be banned from opensource dev work forever and crippled financially for the crime they’ve committed.
Is it that people don’t mind sounding like morons in public or that they think everybody else is stupid enough to fall for their nonsense? I always wonder when I read something like this.
How is it nonsense? Linus himself in the kernel mailing list and in public speaking has repeatedly gone after NVidia due to their licensing. In the kernel, he’s repeatedly cut NVidia off from using various kernel internals because they aren’t open source; attempting to cripple their driver. That’s fact. Check your history on it.
As for wayland, it could have been written to do absolutely anything they wanted it to do and be. They chose to not support NVidia due to the licensing, purposely choosing an incompatible way to display to try and force NVidia to change or to for NVidia to fall from it’s spot as market leader.
I feel bad for NVidia, caving this. An open source driver coming out, them adding features to work with wayland instead of the other way around. It wreaks of extortion by the kernel and wayland devs, to damage market share if the devs don’t get what they want. I hope they get sued for it and lose everything for it. It casts a terrible light on the open source community that it would make companies either capitulate, or the community tries to cut the company off at the knees. It was wrong and should be severely punished to prevent it ever happening again. As it is, no hardware company should trust Linux or offer to support it in any way, because it might turn around and bite you as it did NVidia.
Looks like the birdie has escaped phoronix…
In the small chance that this comment is serious, Nvidia is found this because the corporate server-based customers need the ability to troubleshoot and debug the driver.
The actual trade secrets are being moved into the proprietary firmware blob and out of the driver.
Which will still be enough for Linus to prevent NVidia from getting full access to the kernel internals.
AMD used to have the same issue - their drivers were proprietary and buggy (anyone remember fglrx?). The difference is that they did something about it. Their modern drivers are open-source and mainlined so it’s easy for anyone to work on them. New kernel display/GPU features always come to AMD first, because the kernel developers working on the new feature can just add it to the AMD driver themselves.
Nvidia have open-source drivers now, but they’re still out of tree (so they’ll always lag behind the kernel) and AFAIK they have no plains to merge them into the kernel.
I appreciate Nvidia’s efforts, and their newer drivers are much better than older ones (especially now that they support explicit sync), but they’re just not as good as AMD’s.
Could have been, if Linux kernel devs and wayland devs weren’t trying to break it all the time.
So instead of accepting that the driver should be GPL and part of the kernel, you turn things around and pretend the development of the kernel is the way that it is because of a conspiracy against Nvidia?
The bit regarding Wayland doesn’t make sense, no idea what you’re getting at. Though maybe you don’t follow Linux developments?
It’s not a conspiracy. Here’s Linus, himself, publicly picking a fight with NVidia. All because of a driver not being open source. I love open source, I love the GPL, but no individual or company should be required to do business that way. It’s up to them, as is their right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_36yNWw_07g
I appreciate the fruit of NVidia’s efforts… But that they were forced into it by a pack of wolves is morally wrong, and those responsible need to be ousted from open source, blacklisted from any IT work forever for needlessly inflicting harm on a company and it’s users over a licensing preference.
I just sold my 3070 and bought a 7800XT for the same reasons.