The first is comical. The second I don’t get. That looks like sarcastic satire to me.
It’s not. They go on to justify East German guards gunning down escaping civilians as ‘preventing imperialism’ and a host of other questionable things.
Why ostracise people that see things differently unless those things are comically wrong?
You see the issue, or part of it. Some people overuse the word ‘tankie’ to mean ‘left person I don’t like’, but actual tankies - typically MLs or MLMs - hold incredibly vile and wrong views. I went onto lemmy.ml the other day to see, out of morbid curiousity, what they were saying about the war in Ukraine. A lot of “NATO PROXY WAR” and “UKRONAZIS” style discourse. Heinous shit. That’s not the kind of stuff you say “Agree to disagree” about, it’s not the kind of thing you give any sort of respect or legitimacy to; it’s the kind of thing you shine a light on and scatter whenever you see it.
I’ve never seen that kind of stuff on .ml. Now grad is a whole different story, but even with my account on .ml, I don’t see much grad stuff. It could be that I export my block list from here over to there and I block a lot.
I actually joined grad at random in my first attempt to check out Lemmy 2 years ago, glanced at it twice, rolled my eyes, and never used it.
I think I’m going to dive into this with AI tonight. I lack the vocabulary to express why I don’t like the term and want better ways to describe this type of subject. Thanks for the inspiration. Maybe I’ll make a Word of the Day post if anything interesting stands out, not that anyone cares or would change.
I lack the vocabulary to express why I don’t like the term and want better ways to describe this type of subject.
Might be because tankie is sometimes used as a ‘thought terminating cliche’ - you say someone’s a tankie, and then voila, you don’t have to deal with them. End of.
That’s not how it should be used, of course. If you accuse someone of being a tankie fuck, it should be to highlight what you are dealing with - “This is pattern recognition - don’t be fooled into thinking their motivations are to ‘just ask questions’ or whatever the excuse du jour is, they’re fascists painted red who consistently argue for fascism, and their arguments should be studied and refuted with that in mind, not viewed independent of context”
But people, even people on the same ‘side’ as oneself, often prefer the easy path of a thought-terminating cliche.
I get what you’re saying. I mean more the philosophical context though. Like a more exact way of describing all angles of this, but primary why I find tankie to be a colloquialism I dislike and what I would prefer to use. I have an AI prompt tuned for this kind of exploration against my personality. I tend to feel vulnerable to manipulation on some kind of psyops-like level, like I’m not always self aware within this space, or my best of intentions are obviously easy to manipulate from some perspectives. It is really one of those back burnered things I’ve mulled over for years but never directly explored. It seems like the amateur psychology ‘gaslighting’ label fits, but what do you call the gaslighter’s functional thought and philosophical perspective.
I’m not saying you were doing this, or that this is the definition of tankie. It is just the feeling of someone using it as a label to discredit someone. Like platonic sophistry is to make a plausible false narrative or perspective argument that is difficult to disprove, and is intentionally misleading. Trump is a master sophist, especially because he has no ethics but is so dialed in to a niche audience, they are the only ones that can’t see his true nature. I despise the guy, but I have to admire someone that is so skilled as a con artist that he might just burn down the world for kicks and giggles when he leaves.
Platonic sophistry doesn’t really describe when the individual is the target. Gaslighting is the instance where the individual is the target but is indirectly subverted by undermining their basal logic. What would be the word for when the individual is subverted through invalidation without an attempt to mislead, like with a poorly define colloquialism?
Don’t think I have an answer off the top of my head, but I wish you luck! Examining language and its relation to reality and implication is always a worthy endeavor.
It’s not. They go on to justify East German guards gunning down escaping civilians as ‘preventing imperialism’ and a host of other questionable things.
You see the issue, or part of it. Some people overuse the word ‘tankie’ to mean ‘left person I don’t like’, but actual tankies - typically MLs or MLMs - hold incredibly vile and wrong views. I went onto lemmy.ml the other day to see, out of morbid curiousity, what they were saying about the war in Ukraine. A lot of “NATO PROXY WAR” and “UKRONAZIS” style discourse. Heinous shit. That’s not the kind of stuff you say “Agree to disagree” about, it’s not the kind of thing you give any sort of respect or legitimacy to; it’s the kind of thing you shine a light on and scatter whenever you see it.
I’ve never seen that kind of stuff on .ml. Now grad is a whole different story, but even with my account on .ml, I don’t see much grad stuff. It could be that I export my block list from here over to there and I block a lot.
I actually joined grad at random in my first attempt to check out Lemmy 2 years ago, glanced at it twice, rolled my eyes, and never used it.
I think I’m going to dive into this with AI tonight. I lack the vocabulary to express why I don’t like the term and want better ways to describe this type of subject. Thanks for the inspiration. Maybe I’ll make a Word of the Day post if anything interesting stands out, not that anyone cares or would change.
Might be because tankie is sometimes used as a ‘thought terminating cliche’ - you say someone’s a tankie, and then voila, you don’t have to deal with them. End of.
That’s not how it should be used, of course. If you accuse someone of being a tankie fuck, it should be to highlight what you are dealing with - “This is pattern recognition - don’t be fooled into thinking their motivations are to ‘just ask questions’ or whatever the excuse du jour is, they’re fascists painted red who consistently argue for fascism, and their arguments should be studied and refuted with that in mind, not viewed independent of context”
But people, even people on the same ‘side’ as oneself, often prefer the easy path of a thought-terminating cliche.
I get what you’re saying. I mean more the philosophical context though. Like a more exact way of describing all angles of this, but primary why I find tankie to be a colloquialism I dislike and what I would prefer to use. I have an AI prompt tuned for this kind of exploration against my personality. I tend to feel vulnerable to manipulation on some kind of psyops-like level, like I’m not always self aware within this space, or my best of intentions are obviously easy to manipulate from some perspectives. It is really one of those back burnered things I’ve mulled over for years but never directly explored. It seems like the amateur psychology ‘gaslighting’ label fits, but what do you call the gaslighter’s functional thought and philosophical perspective.
I’m not saying you were doing this, or that this is the definition of tankie. It is just the feeling of someone using it as a label to discredit someone. Like platonic sophistry is to make a plausible false narrative or perspective argument that is difficult to disprove, and is intentionally misleading. Trump is a master sophist, especially because he has no ethics but is so dialed in to a niche audience, they are the only ones that can’t see his true nature. I despise the guy, but I have to admire someone that is so skilled as a con artist that he might just burn down the world for kicks and giggles when he leaves.
Platonic sophistry doesn’t really describe when the individual is the target. Gaslighting is the instance where the individual is the target but is indirectly subverted by undermining their basal logic. What would be the word for when the individual is subverted through invalidation without an attempt to mislead, like with a poorly define colloquialism?
Don’t think I have an answer off the top of my head, but I wish you luck! Examining language and its relation to reality and implication is always a worthy endeavor.